Are the Dawnguard evil?

Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:39 pm

Good, Evil, all that nonsense! It has no place in an extermination!
Just take your sword, gut some bloodsvckers, get paid and buy some whiskey.
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Kortniie Dumont
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:50 am

Good, Evil, all that nonsense! It has no place in an extermination!
Just take your sword, gut some bloodsvckers, get paid and buy some whiskey.
I prefer cyrodilic brandy...
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Laura Mclean
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:44 am

The.Vampires.Still.feast.On.innocent."cattle''while.there.awake.and.are.aware.
I find it Hilarius that you agree with the Vampires "cattle" system, feeding to survive is one thing, but causing unnecessary pain is another, they could at least put them to sleep.
At least the Whet Fang and the Cyrodiilic Vampyrum prefers the method of killing criminals and feeding on catatonic prey. One apple does not ruin the whole bunch. Volkihar are more or less still uncivilized animals.

By the way, have you ever seen a Praying Mantis feed? :P
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Dina Boudreau
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:13 pm

At least the Whet Fang and the Cyrodiilic Vampyrum prefers the method of killing criminals and feeding on catatonic prey. One apple does not ruin the whole bunch. Volkihar are more or less still uncivilized animals.

By the way, have you ever seen a Praying Mantis feed? :tongue:
To be fair, some of the radiant quests from the Volkihar are to kill groups of blood starved insane thin-blood vampires who are planning to attack cities because it'll cause chaos.

They are pretty smart, I don't see how you say they are uncivilized.

Which leads me to think...if you side with the Dawnguard and wipe out the Volkihar isn't that causing more problems?
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Carlos Rojas
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:26 pm

To be fair, some of the radiant quests from the Volkihar are to kill groups of blood starved insane thin-blood vampires who are planning to attack cities because it'll cause chaos.

They are pretty smart, I don't see how you say they are uncivilized.

Which leads me to think...if you side with the Dawnguard and wipe out the Volkihar isn't that causing more problems?
Maybe, but there is another side to it: The Volkihar also spread their blood to people within the cities to increase their presence. I think it is easier to contend with less organized and less powerful vampires than the Volkihar.
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patricia kris
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:11 pm

To be fair, some of the radiant quests from the Volkihar are to kill groups of blood starved insane thin-blood vampires who are planning to attack cities because it'll cause chaos.

They are pretty smart, I don't see how you say they are uncivilized.

Which leads me to think...if you side with the Dawnguard and wipe out the Volkihar isn't that causing more problems?
There are levels of civility within vampire clans, though. While some may show signs of enlightement, they maybe more monsters than anything else. And what the Volkihar use is common sense.
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:00 am

To be fair, some of the radiant quests from the Volkihar are to kill groups of blood starved insane thin-blood vampires who are planning to attack cities because it'll cause chaos.

They are pretty smart, I don't see how you say they are uncivilized.

Which leads me to think...if you side with the Dawnguard and wipe out the Volkihar isn't that causing more problems?

Not necessarily. In theory, the destruction of the most powerful and intelligent group could be advantageous. The weaker clans who had no chance of rising in power, could easily fall into the trap of initiating a power struggle and fight amongst themselves, weakening them all and making them easier to pick off while their attention is on each other.

As their chaotic violence becomes more apparent and possibly even causes them to make foolish, desperate mistakes, the Dawnguard could gain more powerful support and even volunteers. Copycat organizations and solo bounty hunters looking to make themselves a name may even rise up in response to try and capitalize on the situation.
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Oceavision
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:17 pm

"Antagonize thy Victim and Ye shall recieve no Pity"
I'll have to be neutral on this matter it's two sides of the same coin one seeks vengence for their flock dying, While the other simply is trying to live their life. Morality is a misconception and a creation of words for the law of nature is "Survival of the fittest" while a underlying context of this is cooperation of the strongest and the weakest, I.e; It would be justifiable for a vampire to feed if the person in question submitted themself to said vampire. For cooperation would be the only way "humans" and "vampires" could exist coexistently without the will to destroy each other.
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Peter P Canning
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:35 am

The DG are...extreme but not evil. The Vigilants can be seen as evil because they kill Daedra worshipers and even Werewolves, BOTH of which are not always bad. Vampires are naturally predatory and evil because that is how Molag Bal wanted them. The DG were able to trust Serana throughout the QL showing that they can reason, proving that they are not all bad
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Cagla Cali
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:08 pm

There is nothing about the Dawnguard that is evil and if you write an essay to make it so they are, you're wasting your time.

Maybe every vampire isn't evil. They do what they must or whatever. But Harkon and the Volkihar attack cities, kill people for fun, torture, burn down villages (according to dialogue) and are plotting to blot out the sun so they may reek havoc and perform their perverse evils at all hours of day and night.

The Dawnguard is just a warrior who wants to protect people who recruited other honorable people with good hearts to risk their life for the protection of Skyrim.

Volkihar = Incredibly evil bad guys
Dawnguard = Incredibly just good guys

I've played both sides, just saying.
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Umpyre Records
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:25 pm

Well in my opinion, it's like the civil war you choose the lesser of two evils. Sure dawnguard want to kill people who have no choice but to feed on people but at the same time, the vampires want to block out the sun. So again it's the lesser of two evils
Actually you and try and stop Harkon from blocking out the sun as a vampire
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Jesus Sanchez
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:07 pm

There is nothing about the Dawnguard that is evil and if you write an essay to make it so they are, you're wasting your time.

Maybe every vampire isn't evil. They do what they must or whatever. But Harkon and the Volkihar attack cities, kill people for fun, torture, burn down villages (according to dialogue) and are plotting to blot out the sun so they may reek havoc and perform their perverse evils at all hours of day and night.

The Dawnguard is just a warrior who wants to protect people who recruited other honorable people with good hearts to risk their life for the protection of Skyrim.

Volkihar = Incredibly evil bad guys
Dawnguard = Incredibly just good guys

I've played both sides, just saying.
I have never liked vampire slayers because they are basically murderers
That is why I like framing them for murdering random beggars by leaving little incriminating notes
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The Tyranny of the sun shall end
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Alexander Horton
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:17 pm

They want to eradicate an entire race just for doing what comes naturally to them.

That is like killing every wolf in the world for killing deer.

Your thoughts?
It's exactly the same as the Blades wanting you to murder Parthuurnax for being Alduin's lieutenant at one point.
And the old Dawnguard, as many of the current members tell you when you ask, became evil as far as their knowledge, by accepting the power of a vampir ethey were trying to contain within the fort.
Oh and don't talk about killing wolves, it gives me a headache and a bad feeling in my stomache...
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Vampires are fully capable when fed to think and reason that makes them more than predators, they are still people and as such are a race, like with any race there are good and evil people..the evil vampires who get corrupted by their power are the ones that kill when feeding and the good ones (most of them or well the clan affiliated Vampires) feed and move on without killing.

????
Do some studying of the animal kingdom. -All- the big carnivorous predators are towards the top of the intelligence scale where they operate; this only makes them more dangerous. And the most dangerous predator known is man. The thinking beast. Now throw a =need= to take the fresh blood from another living thing.....and despite recent rewriting of lore, a human vampire can only feed on other humans. Blood of their blood.
As to the 'race' issue...... Can they reproduce themselves? No. They -can- kill a meal and make the remains an undead bloodsvcker like they are, but they can not reproduce. Ergo they are not, and never can be a 'race' (add to the fact that they can turn Mer and beastfolk as well.....kind of ruins the idea of a homogeneous race, ne?).

Though you could as I said before blame the Vampire Hunters for causing some vampires to kill when feeding, when they are chased off at every chance they go insane from starvation and can't be held accountable for what they do which may be considered desperation induced evil.

And why would said Vampire Hunters be chasing said vampires, hmmmmm? For fun? Vampires are stonger and faster than humans. Hunting one is like hunting a predator with the mind of a man, the potential knowledge of a near immortal, and strength and speed that make a jaguar look like a broken-legged calico kitten. You don't go near them unless you are nuts, or have a very good reason to.
Romanticize the curse all you want, but it is a curse; you have a simple choice. Take from another human being, or dry up to the point where you -can't- move, and can only lay there until you go nuts or someone puts you out of your misery. And how long can you take from another before that other become less than you....just a bloodbag. Not a thing with feelings, life, things that matter. Just a sack to sate your hunger (and the 'drink and move on without killing' isn't a sign of goodness. It is the act of a predator that doesn't want to stir up the herd. Plains cats do this with gazelle herds; prowl the very edge, and take the yearlings who don't know better than to go a wandering).
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Calum Campbell
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:33 am

Harkon was [censored] by Molag bal and Vivec..none are safe.

Uhh? If i remeber correctly the conversation says the FEMALES of their clan was offered to Molag Bal so that their WHOLE CLAN could be made pure bloods (so the men was left out but still became pure bloods).
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Matt Gammond
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:36 pm

????
Do some studying of the animal kingdom. -All- the big carnivorous predators are towards the top of the intelligence scale where they operate; this only makes them more dangerous. And the most dangerous predator known is man. The thinking beast. Now throw a =need= to take the fresh blood from another living thing.....and despite recent rewriting of lore, a human vampire can only feed on other humans. Blood of their blood.
As to the 'race' issue...... Can they reproduce themselves? No. They -can- kill a meal and make the remains an undead bloodsvcker like they are, but they can not reproduce. Ergo they are not, and never can be a 'race' (add to the fact that they can turn Mer and beastfolk as well.....kind of ruins the idea of a homogeneous race, ne?).
I believe the Grey prince disputes your claim as his mother was a regular orc and
 his father was a vampire
.

edit: The dawnguard wouldn't be considered evil if they only killed the evil vampires as opposed to their leader's hatred and blind obssesion to kill them all.
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Anthony Santillan
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:09 pm

For me, they're not evil at all. They're dead. The survivors, however, are just a tad over zealous.
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Alexxxxxx
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:14 am

Its based on culture and background in western terms the vampires are evil this whole dawnguard vs vampire thing? The one that survives writes the history books.
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Breautiful
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:00 pm

The wolves to sheep comparison does raise some interesting points...the first beign that wolves and other forest predators usually serve the purpose of thining out the elderly and weak from the rest of the heard...so even if Vampires were not created by an evil demon lord like Molag Bal to stop their souls from leaving the world, the mere fact that they want to snack on everybody does make the evil and the danwguard not.
I remeber roleplaying a fallen paladin char in Oblvion, where I had become infected and rather than reloading I decided to play it out, and becoming a Batman sort of vampire; a guy who would prey on the forst of humanity to feed, and to clean the roads and dungeon of evil dooers like bandits and necromancers....he was a pretyy good character to play
If TES vampires were like that I would say that they could be somehting other than evil, but since all they think of is snacking on everybody not vampire then anyone who is actively thinking of stoping that would be regarded defiently as not evil by me...
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Blaine
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:29 pm

Are the Dawnguard evil? Well, that depends. Do you see vampires as savage beasts or simply a different race/species that merely does what it needs to do to survive? Of course, the Volkahir, at least Harkon, is evil because he's not doing what he needs to do to survive. He's literally blocking out the sun, an equivalent to humans drastically changing the landscape of a region at the expense of every species there.

However, to vampires, they themselves are what we humans consider ourselves to be in the biosphere. #1. Having human cattle is just as bad as having animal cattle to them...which is to say not bad at all. Of course, if I were the one strapped to a bed, I'd consider them evil because I'm a sapient creature. But who's to say cows aren't sapient and they think WE'RE evil?
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Scott Clemmons
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Are the Dawnguard evil? Well, that depends. Do you see vampires as savage beasts or simply a different race/species that merely does what it needs to do to survive? Of course, the Volkahir, at least Harkon, is evil because he's not doing what he needs to do to survive. He's literally blocking out the sun, an equivalent to humans drastically changing the landscape of a region at the expense of every species there.
Blocking out the sun will truly do nothing to mortals, as all life just need magic and sunlight is not needed at all. Blocking the sun is more like humanity making a cure for all dieases.
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Ian White
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:21 pm

Isn't this all relative?

Some females of the spider species eat their mate after reproduction. Is that evil?

A snake will eat a mouse and an Eagle will eat a snake. Is that evil?

Humans kill animals, rip reproductive means off plants to eat, and cull both plants and animals. Is that evil?

I mean I could get into modern day issues and a grand debate could be had about whether a scenario is good or evil.

It depends on which eyes you see the situation through, and even then are things grey or gray lol
Nature: One could argue that now Vampires and Werewolves are top predator.
Western: Killing of others is wrong
TES: Undead is usually an abomination.

However, I believe it all comes down to nature. It isn't Talos filling your belly of venison. It is that deer you killed. Granted he could have help (religious debate... no no).

And whoever said that Daedra cannot be judged because they are not on the same realms is silly. In the Western world we do it all the time. Heaven good... Hell bad, unless I mistook the argument presented
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Undisclosed Desires
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:23 pm

Evil is not subjective. If you hurt others for personal gain you are doing something wrong. You can try to think of examples that prove that wrong and you may succeed but the exception doesn't write the rule. Vampires in Skyrim are evil. All vampires might not be evil, such as Sybille, but the ones who are and who plot against humanity have to be stopped. It's not really a subjective topic. The Dawnguard isn't evil in nature whether or not a member or two commits an evil act there mission is in it's roots a just one,
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RUby DIaz
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:56 pm



"Evil is not subjective. If you hurt others for personal gain you are doing something wrong."

Who dictates what is right or wrong? You?

"Vampires in Skyrim are evil. All vampires might not be evil, such as Sybille, but the ones who are and who plot against humanity have to be stopped"
Just because you think they are evil doesn't make them evil at all. Sybille still feeds on people. Janus Hassildor still feeds on people. Serana still feeds on people. Vampires need to feed on people. People. Are. Food. Morality doesn't even enter it.
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Nana Samboy
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:15 am

Just because you think they are evil doesn't make them evil at all. Sybille still feeds on people. Janus Hassildor still feeds on people. Serana still feeds on people. Vampires need to feed on people. People. Are. Food. Morality doesn't even enter it.

I generally agree with this point, it is a need to feed more than an evil desire (not including the pyschos who just want to conquer the world but there are plenty of normal mortals that want that to so again i dont hold it against them).

Overall i view it as this, neither are evil per say. Both are doing what they are doing for the need to survive, not really a morality issue just the natural order. Whether or not vampirism is natural isnt really the point either, just the kill or be killed dynamic. Theoretically because they are sentient there could be alternatives or the desire to cure themselves or whatever which is why I kill vampires (that attack me or anyone else). They could try to cure themselves and if they choose not to to that is fine, it is their choice. But it also means I will keep my eye on them and if they attempt to harm others, then I will cut them down, not out of hatred but out of the desire to keep my own species safe.
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Phillip Brunyee
 
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