Is Arngeir the strongest or the weakest Greybeard?

Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:59 am

Ok so either he's the strongest or the weakest&wisest. Here's the argument-

Strongest-Hes so strong and has mastered the voice to such a degree he can speak freely without shaking the mountain/world. Also Ulfrik says he is the strongest when asked about the Greybeard's in dialog.

Weakest&wisest-He is the weakest of the four Greybeard's because he is the one of the four that is the mentor because when he speaks it doesn't disrupt the mountain. Also when the Dragonborn talks with him about learning dragonrend and references the blades is possible through the dialog siding with the blades that he will refuse to help you, furthermore after he denies the dragonborn assistance in learning dragonrend master Einarth approaches Arngeir and "Reminds" him of his duty as a Greybeard. Now take that for what it is, but to me it sounds like Einarth, the stronger Greybeard, in essence punked Arngier and made him help the Dragonborn, Its unclear what Einarth said to Arngeir because it was all in draconic language.

So whats everyone else's thoughts?
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Rhi Edwards
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:36 pm

Weakest. You know why he is the only one that talks to you? Because if the other Greybeards spoke to you it would kill you. /thread
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luis dejesus
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:37 pm

Ok so either he's the strongest or the weakest&wisest. Here's the argument-

Strongest-Hes so strong and has mastered the voice to such a degree he can speak freely without shaking the mountain/world. Also Ulfrik says he is the strongest when asked about the Greybeard's in dialog.

Weakest&wisest-He is the weakest of the four Greybeard's because he is the one of the four that is the mentor because when he speaks it doesn't disrupt the mountain. Also when the Dragonborn talks with him about learning dragonrend and references the blades is possible through the dialog siding with the blades that he will refuse to help you, furthermore after he denies the dragonborn assistance in learning dragonrend master Einarth approaches Arngeir and "Reminds" him of his duty as a Greybeard. Now take that for what it is, but to me it sounds like Einarth, the stronger Greybeard, in essence punked Arngier and made him help the Dragonborn, Its unclear what Einarth said to Arngeir because it was all in draconic language.

So whats everyone else's thoughts?

what more do you want?
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El Goose
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:17 pm

Something I asked myself before.
I have no conclusive answer to this.

Probably the weakest because of the reasons you already pointed out, though.
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lolly13
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:57 pm

Arngeir is the weakest IIRC, masters of Thu'um have to be constantly gagged to prevent them from talking.

Still, I can't exactly say that he's TRULY the weakest. Thu'um does contain power, but the universal language does not, so perhaps he IS the strongest but because he's speaking in Elder Scrollsian, he can speak freely.
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Rodney C
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:04 pm

Arngeir is the weakest IIRC, masters of Thu'um have to be constantly gagged to prevent them from talking.

Still, I can't exactly say that he's TRULY the weakest. Thu'um does contain power, but the universal language does not, so perhaps he IS the strongest but because he's speaking in Elder Scrollsian, he can speak freely.

Cyrodiilic is the right term, I think.
Also it was also said that the masters of the Thu'um were not able to talk at all without causing devastation, iirc.
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Naughty not Nice
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:53 pm

The official guide states that he is in fact, the Strongest Greybeard.

Then again, same guide states that the Court-Mage of Riften's insanity is all just an act.
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:29 pm

Maybe he is the smartest because he can learn dragon and whatever language they speak in tamriel.
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Music Show
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:46 am

Maybe he is stronger 'cause he can control his voices, between dragon language and human's.
It's a "maybe" though.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:50 am

Strongest, if Ulfric says so. If he's not speaking dragon then why would he have to be gagged?
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sophie
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:14 am

Weakest. You know why he is the only one that talks to you? Because if the other Greybeards spoke to you it would kill you. /thread

Strongest. For the very same reason. Because he has so much control over his voice that he's the only one who is deemed safe to talk to people.

Einarth and Borri are level 100. Wulfgar is level 90. What is Arngeir's level? 150.
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Chad Holloway
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:54 pm

Strongest, if Ulfric says so. If he's not speaking dragon then why would he have to be gagged?

I cant' follow you...
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Fluffer
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:48 am

Cyrodiilic is the right term, I think.
Also it was also said that the masters of the Thu'um were not able to talk at all without causing devastation, iirc.

I'm thinking this is no longer true though. If Dovahkiin is a greater master of the voice than the Greybeards (he can learn and use intrinsically in an instant), then he shouldn't be allowed to have dialogue :P
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Yvonne
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:13 pm

I cant' follow you...

The line of thinking is that "if Arngier can talk without causing devastation, he must be weaker". But why would words of common tongue cause devastation anyways?
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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:56 am

I'm thinking this is no longer true though. If Dovahkiin is a greater master of the voice than the Greybeards (he can learn and use intrinsically in an instant), then he shouldn't be allowed to have dialogue :tongue:

Maybe it's the Way of the Voice and its philosophy.
I think the only Nords who weren't able to speak at all without making people exploding were the ancient Tongues.

That would point towards Arngeir being the strongest, for he mastered the Way of the Voice the best.
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Ana
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:28 pm

He's the strongest, he has mastered his voice so he doesn't kill anyone when he speaks.
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marina
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm

I'm thinking this is no longer true though. If Dovahkiin is a greater master of the voice than the Greybeards (he can learn and use intrinsically in an instant), then he shouldn't be allowed to have dialogue :tongue:

There may be a difference between a Dovah thu'um and an Joor thu'um. Dragons don't have the problem because it's intrinsic to them, wheras this is not so for a mundane mortal practitioner. Since the Dragonborn's thu'um is inherently a dragon's...
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Frank Firefly
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:35 pm

Strongest. For the very same reason. Because he has so much control over his voice that he's the only one who is deemed safe to talk to people.

Einarth and Borri are level 100. Wulfgar is level 90. What is Arngeir's level? 150.

How do you know their level? To what you said though, I could've swore when you ask him why the other Greybeards DON'T speak, he says (paraphrasing) "because their voices are so strong, they would kill you if they spoke". Now, that may symbolize that he has more control, but the way he said it, I took it to mean he was not as powerful with the voice as the other Greybeards, hence he is the weakest.

I mean, let's be honest, he certainly does come off as the leader, so in that regard, I'm tempted to say he is the strongest, but just from what HE told me about the other Greybeards, I assumed he was the weakest.
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Dawn Farrell
 
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Post » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:08 am

The line of thinking is that "if Arngier can talk without causing devastation, he must be weaker". But why would words of common tongue cause devastation anyways?

I begin to see it that way:
Learn the Thu'um and you will damage things with Dragon language.
Become better and your Thu'um becomes so powerful everything you are saying will cause damage.
Master the Way of the Voice and you regain control over it.

Ulfric would be level 1 in this scenarion, Arngeir 1 or 3.
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ijohnnny
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:29 pm

I'm thinking this is no longer true though. If Dovahkiin is a greater master of the voice than the Greybeards (he can learn and use intrinsically in an instant), then he shouldn't be allowed to have dialogue :tongue:

I think it only applies to the thu'um. But it isn't really clear either way.
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:08 pm

I begin to see it that way:
Learn the Thu'um and you will damage things with Dragon language.
Become better and your Thu'um becomes so powerful everything you are saying will cause damage.
Master the Way of the Voice and you regain control over it.

Ulfric would be level 1 in this scenarion, Arngeir 1 or 3.

Yeah. I think mastery of the voice is the point where you can fully control it. Thus, the other greybeards cannot do so and Arngier and dovahkiin can.
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louise tagg
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:31 pm

How do you know their level?
I looked them up in the Creation Kit (which is what I assume MadCat did). His figures are correct.

Arngeir: Level 150, Health 1292
Borri: Level 100, Health 875
Einarth: Level 90, Health 792
Wulfgar: Level 100, Health 875
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Dan Wright
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:52 pm

I looked them up in the Creation Kit (which is what I assume MadCat did). His figures are correct.

Arngeir: Level 150, Health 1292
Borri: Level 100, Health 875
Einarth: Level 90, Health 792
Wulfgar: Level 100, Health 875

Luucckkyy!
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Bereket Fekadu
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:25 pm


I looked them up in the Creation Kit (which is what I assume MadCat did). His figures are correct.

Arngeir: Level 150, Health 1292
Borri: Level 100, Health 875
Einarth: Level 90, Health 792
Wulfgar: Level 100, Health 875
I always assumed he was the weakest. I guess I was wrong.
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Nikki Lawrence
 
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Post » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:56 pm

Luucckkyy!

Even though it's just game mechanics, I guess it's an indication at least.
Given that and the other theories, Arngeir just took the place of the strongest Greybeard beside Paarthy in my head-canon.
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lolly13
 
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