ASTARSIS HEARTHFIRE DECORATING 101

-permision to reproduce, expand, host, whatever ...

-original author : Astarsis
-de-facto contributors and saviors : Freddo, Aussie
-Thanks: Bethesda, the Elder Scrolls community

Hello, I will share some wisdom on how to decorate your house how you want it
and keeping your game stable and enjoyable

SHARED WISDOM

Freddo: Desactivate all house workbench unless you are building somewhere
Only activate one workbench at a time when building
Desactivate it before activating a new one

Aussie: Items in the house respawn if you are away 10 days or more

Astarsis: If you move items they will return to their original position
after 10 days of absence

PC users:
- Any town house mods will conflict
- Even famous mods like the unoficial patch cause conflict or scenic carriages
because Bethesda and those mods changed the same navmesh
- Multiples companions mods cause problems with the new housecarls


DECORATING

REMARK
-It seems physics have been improved in hearthfire,
or I just got incredibly better at handling it

TIP ONE
-drop a few object to the floor, go outside the house and come back
-you need to do this before you place an object
otherwise the engine 'forget' the new position
-As long as you don't return the item to your inventory
you can grab it, move it, drop it, grab it again ...
as often as needed

TIP TWO
-pre-existing respawning objects will return to their position
-don't waste time on this

TIP THREE
-make temporary saves everytime you move an object, even a simple book
-physics are restless and those are all reanimated draughr books and vegetables

TIP FOUR
-make a major save game every time you finish a room
(I do this by casting candlelight and going 3rd person sitting on a chair)
(can't miss it ! then I delete all temporary tomato placement saves)

TIP FIVE
-go in stealth mode, move slowly, nove objects slowly
-otherwise they seem to pick up momentum

TIP SIX
-some surface are more flat and makes easier to put potion upright
-table edges are sometime elevated and can stop an egg from falling

TIP SEVEN
-some statics like the trays are 'physical containers'
like the ore trays in the basemant

TIP EIGHT
-you can place objects INSIDE pre-existing objects like cooking pot
just try not to displace them or shake them
(example: adding carrots inside an iron pot)

TIP NINE
-you can place objects on top of pre-existing objects
(example: you can place a book on top of bethesda respawning book)

TIP TEN
-if you remove that apple dumpling and place a tomato there
the apple dumpling will eventually respawn causing the tomato to roll
and then who knows ... end of the world maybe ...
-if you remove that book on the second floor and place a butterfly in a jar on that table
the book will respawn under the butterfly in a jar, causing it to go up
but it will not fall down

TIP ELEVEN
-you can set up a nice alchemist lab by using the containers
and placing visual clues arround it showing what's inside the container
(placing some red flowers, blue flowers ... fire salts ... etc)

TIP TWELVE ***IMPORTANT***
-you can place stuff on top of chests !!! that's right !!!
opening the chest will not cause items to fall down !!!
it's a great place to place books piles
just make sure to leave space to activate the chest,
so place stuff toward the back of the chest
-the same is true for the top of barells

TIP THIRTEEN
-sometime you can reach hard to reach places
like placing that butterfly in a jar on top of a high shelf
-that butterfly in a jar from (top secret location)
will respawn when that location respawn
giving you many to decorate your house

TIP FOURTEEN
-be carefull not to overdo it, especially with large objects
-if other npcs latter run in the house it could cause a mess
-so aim for small objects that fit in pockets
-or put that orcish warhammer of smashing on a large enougth table

TIP FIFTEEN
-don't underestimate that divine shrine or that forge firepit
they are great display areas

TIP SIXTEEN***
-knocking a wine bottle, potion, on a table or shelf
can make it go upright
-it's done by moving the object up
and then smashing it down on the surface
-it makes the object rotate
-if you smash too fast it's hard to control, but you understand what's going on
-now try smashing it more slowly, gently
-that's it ... the wine bottle is now upright 8D
-it works better than 'rubbing it on the wall'

TIP SEVENTEEN
-In the bedroom the is a bookstand
-in theory you can put an open book on it
-in practice I was unsuccesfull in placing an open book at the right angle
-maybe you can put scrolls there, I didn't try yet
(there is an edge that would prevent scrolls from falling)

I have not investigated the bookstand yet except to put the book back last night that keeps falling off. I was thinking it would look nice with more books in it. Will have a look and see if it can hold an open book. Does anyone know where the book that falls off is meant to be? It has fallen off in all my games.

I managed to add a few books in the lower shelves of that bookstand, and I can put one book at the top, on the stand (but not opened)
No books felled so far, but I don't have any npcs yet
could the kids be running arround and making things fall ?

Also it depend on size of books, that's critical, I only put the smallest book in that book stand, because there isn't much space
I think I managed to put 2, horizontal, on top of the horizontal book bethesda already put there

puting books nearly horizontal is feasible but can be really hard
I managed to do that on the top floor in the top level of the 'cornershelf' in the walkway area,
just when you leave the secondary bedroom (with two beds) and move toward the arcane enchenter
It's the small weird bookshelf with shelves not the same size and with decorations in it
What I put there was 2 small books, more or less vertical,
didn't look that good, so in the end I removed them
but they didn't fell when I visited riverwood a few times to test
so that work


About that book that fall off, are you sure you didn't drop anything arround there ?
and are you on pc or xbox360, maybe the havoc code is different/simplified
that would cause things to fall more easilly
the more simplified it gets, the more the boundaries for collisions are like boxes

by the way, to get things on that shelf, I was in stealth mode and going really slow (moving the mouse slowly)
and also each time I got a book placed I saved
because I had quite a few faillures !!! a lot !!
probably the hardest part of my decoration was that shelf

practice with pilling up books elsewhere first, to get the hang of it.
they fall off really easilly when they are not exactly on top of each other
or when they collide
or when ... they decide to open up (nightmare scenario) or to 'flap their wings' (even worst)

now I know how hard it is for doctor to do an operation remotely 8D

The books The Seed, Chaurus Pie:A Recipe and some snowberries end up on the floor in every single bedroom wing I build, happens when the house respawns so nothing to do with NPC's or anything. Same as the silver jug falls off the side table at the top of the enchanting tower, a flour sack and some mudcrab legs end up on the floor in the kitchen wing. They are just little glitches. The latest is that silly kettle in the entryway with the cabbage and venison now spawns crooked. I play on the Xbox360, so no way to fix it, I just go and pick them all up.

You can put a small open book on top of the bookstand, it will stay open, but none of the books open all the way. You cannot get a roll of paper to stay there, and I can think of better ways to display scrolls. There is also a lot of problems placing anything on top of the bookstand due to the mounted head above the stand and some strange invisible obstructions on the stand itself. Possibly they originally intended to do something with it and abandoned the idea. You put any more than one book on there on reloading at least one will fall off. But one book by itself sticks very well, just looks strange sticking up like that. You could have one book open and one book facedown and both would stay, but still not something I would do. In the screenshot the book on the right fell on reloading.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/bookstand.jpg

That's weird, on PC I never saw any of Bethesda-placed items fall off.
Maybe the code is simplified on xbox360, physics do take quite a bit of cpu power
If it's simplified (more squarish/rought boundaries) then things would fall more often

example of bad boundaries (on pc) the orcish warhammer
also the large display cases seems to have really bad inner boundaries
like you see the space availlable, but that's not what's really availlable
the space you can use inside the large display case is maybe 70% of it at best

when bad values like this are done, or bad calculation, things fall off more often or behave in strange way

for example holding a wine bottle has the top facing down
as if the game don't understand center or gravity, up or down
or pretty much anything that would make it behave realisticaly

bah ! can,t complain ! not many game tried to do this in real time
and it's kind of fun pilling up things in a messy way
I pilled up all sorts of different potion bottles in a large display case

I don't have the enchanter tower or the kitchen yet
still at my first house (armory/storage/bedrooms)

***You can put a small open book on top of the bookstand, it will stay open, but none of the books open all the way***

thanks a lot for the picture 8D
I'll try to see if I can do it with a small book

I wish they did those boundaries better. seems they're using simple cubes
and that their calculations are often wrong (like the display cases)

fortunately that's stuff they can fix if they spend a bit of time on it
it's ostly work the artist would do, or some automated program
it just seem it was not done right
perhaps they need different boundaries for the fighting to work correctly

The display cases seem pretty good to me, you get all of the red mat to fill up, some items you might put in are bigger than they seem, which might be the problem you had with not being able to use all the space in the display case. I was attempting to fill all the display cases up in one house with particular books and had to juggle them around a bit, so no very well how much space you can get out of each size display case. The other character I did it with first had more large display cases, less books and I ended up with one large display case with only three books which the display case did not like, it kept moving them up to make space for a fourth. She did not have a fourth unique book to put in there.

I go back to her house I will fix the problem and the case will have 4 large books. The second attempt turned out better than the first. Although the display I do not think looks as nice. But Braggen had more books and I was determined to get some good ones in the display cases. He had more small display cases, one less large case.

Edit

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/Brweapons01.jpg could put another dagger in under the battleaxe, put I only wanted one of each, you have all the red mat to play with. The second character put the same weapons in the same case but a different way and had trouble with the axe on the end moving and took it out. She never had the flowers in the case, but I doubt the flowers are holding them still. Now I have a screen shot I will do her case the same way and get all 4 weapons in the case.

Some of the dispaly cases from Braggen's house with the library wing, which set the theme for the upper house area.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/bruppermainhall.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/brmainhallbedroom.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/Brbackroom.jpg

These ones are in a big display case in Aussie's house, along with Saint Jiub's Opus
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/BrMainhallDBbedroom.jpg

And the cheeky display case in the entryway that in Aussie's house wants that fourth book.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/Brbookentryway.jpg

I wanted 4 unique looking books, but will settle for Saint Jiub's Opus getting the fourth spot.

And if Bethesda ever provides a way for console players to take screenshots that are transferable to a a portable storage device it would be really helpful.

You're a real display case expert !

I tend to pile stuff on shelves so far, less 'kung fu fighting' going on 8D
but I'll find something nice to put there

I was thinking of filling one with all my gems (saphires, diamonds, etc...)

multiple weapons seems quite a challenge

The colours are magnificent. I have one small display case filled with gems. When I get around to exploring again I will begin to work on a large display case. Besides the colours the gems make you look rich.

The issue I had with letting gems be all around a place was the lag produced by so many of those objects in the room. Is there reason to hope that having them in a display case will lessen the effect? I regretted having to put them in a safe or chest.

I found that it was best to put gems in a smaller container, the wooden ones on the floor in the entryway/small house look nice with a lot of gems in them. The containers you can put soul gems in in the enchanting tower also look nice filled up with different gems. I would have made the top floor of the enchanting tower a treasure room, but could not decorate with coins or money sacks. If we can pick them up I do not see why we cannot drop them again, bit disappointed I could not have some money lying around the place.

If I was a PC player I would use that Map of Dragon Burials to go on top of the bookstand in the bedroom wing. Unfortunately at least in my Xbox 360 version of the game, you cannot put the map on display, it just vanishes on your return. But I am sure the PC players could fix that if they have the problem.

And the book The Seed that keeps falling off the bookstand in my game I found goes on the bottom shelf, around the wrong way and sticks half way out. It went back to its old sticking out position when the house reset after 10 days, but the books on top held it in place.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/BrBookstand.jpg

Alternatively, he East Empire Shipping Map might look nice on there! I'll have to borrow it back from Delvin, since it always seems kicking around on the floor of the TG Cistern anyway. (Though I guess that's a bad sign for how the map may behave in a home.)

I have had the East Empire one on display in Hjerim for ages, but it is a bit bigger than the Map of Dragon Burials. I meant to test it out for size but got distracted by some mischievous poltergeist at Heljarchen Hall, ruining my home decorating attempt with the dining room table. Do our children misbehave?

I need to find that map ! Your bookstand look really nice

Can't see the images due to a PB block at work, so I'll try to remember, but I'm curious about something: how long does one have to "practice" moving items? I tried. I really did, but the constant flipping-upside-down and trying to reposition it upright against a ledge broke my willpower. I couldn't do it anymore. To such a degree of customization must tell me some of you designers have no hair having pulled it out getting things just right.

With the current system a few days practice should take the aggravation out of most things. The only thing you need to watch out for is that the edge of ledges behave like object magnets, most things will stick to the edge rather than go on or in anything. So lift them up over the edge before going down. Little things like skooma bottles you can use that attraction to get them upright by lining them up level with some edges (while upside down) and moving it forward gently.

Arranging lavender in a kettle, basket or bucket results in a bit of hair pulling, you need patience and a bit of cunning to do that. Put a larger object next to where you want the lavender to go, balance the lavender on the edge around the right way and make it go down hopefully into where you want it. Some will still miss, or refuse to go in because the other lavender already in there is in the way. I usually use a knife with a firm grip to move them over and fit more in.

Does anyone have any idea how I can display my Elder Scroll (Dragon) (I got a mod which made it dropable) on the wall shelf just under the Moosehead and above the fireplace in my house? I've tried placing it from either balcony, and after an hour (and more than a little motion sickness - playing with the physics engine can do that to you) I managed to get it sitting on the shelf, but quite obviously sticking out towards the east (which is the balcony I reached from). I could only do that by disabling the moosehead, and reenabling it after I got it to sit there and not spasm its way off the shelf onto my cooking steward's head below (she was not impressed, especially after countless "be careful with that" and "what are you doing?"... wish I knew, Illia, wish I knew..). I tried using another item to gently push it to the west a little, only for it to spasm and leap off the shelf like an Olympic diver. I tried using a bow and arrow to gently shoot it and it did the same. There's no way we can access that shelf from the front, right above the dinner table, is there? With the TCL command you can't pick items up.

I think I need a break for a few hours.. trying to get that scroll up there had made me really really ill now.

You also have a mod to stop stuff from respawning in the houses, otherwise it will just be knocked off anyway. Being an Xbox 360 player I never bothered, and have no scrolls that are usable anyway. If you have it on the shelf but it is not in the middle, grab something else that has a fixed grip and push it along a bit. Some of the staves have a nice stable grip, see if you have one that does not insist on turning upside down. if not you might have something else that will do.

Edit
Now I have no idea how an elder scroll moves, but if you want to use that shelf, jump on the table and put your items up there. Obviously doing that shelf before you decorate the table would be an idea.

Wow - I never actually thought of standing on that table. It didn't look like it was possible to reach the shelf from there, but somehow it works. It was incredibly easy to place it in a central position, and although sometimes It'll fall off when you leave the cell and come back, it's easy enough to repeat until you finally get the placement which doesn't fall.. yet. Thanks so much!

Round things will tend to roll a bit, not sure how much space you have left up there, but to keep it captive you could try putting something in front of it, a flower maybe, or a flat gem like an emerald might work. A screen shot of it up there would be nice, for us console players who can never put our scrolls on display, and those of us who cannot use the shelf anyway.

I'll post a pic when i get to the office tomorrow (I usually play on the office PC as it's much better). I was thinking of placing a couple of Gold Ingots on either side (so as not to block the Starburst design in the centre) and there's just about enough space (visible, that is. You can never tell with the physics engine). If flowers will work just as well then I might try that, though - are all objects equally heavy for blocking purposes? A bunch of mountain flowers scattered in front of the scroll will make it look like a mini-shrine up there...

They are not equally heavy, but often it does not take much to stop something rolling off, anything in front of it should do.

The East Empire map was too big, would not stay and was very disruptive, had to do the books and ink wells again after it had flown across the room. Hope if goes back where it was before, without any such behaviour.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Skyrim/eastempiremap.jpg

Oh, how did you get that weapons plaque to work? I can get the shield on there properly, but when I try to add the weapons they end up halfway up the wall between the plaque and the ceiling.

those look like some sort of war axes, maybe the only ones that work
maces 'almost worked' but looked odd, I'll have to try war axes like aussie did, anything else I tried didn't work

aussie, that's some really nice decoration there, with the baskets filled with scrolls.
that must have needed some hair pulling

I started collecting baskets and other countainers for such purposes, when I got the energy to decorate more
had an eventfull trip to karthwasten, on foot, including some double crossing thalmor backstabers
the little clowns acted as if I didn't bothered them, and moved toward dragonbridge after rorickstead, where we split up
then they must have doubled back and attacked me by surprise at night !!!
that was a close call ! barely survived.
at least I got more sabrecat tooth to finish my house, got 3 of them during that trip