When you run the Frans EXE and change the installation path, does it end in "Oblivion" or "Data." I need to know what the folder structure is after choosing a folder to install it too.

Just Fired up both Installers for Frans this was the Defualt path for me......C:\Program Files (x86)\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\data

That was already There, thinking Frans installer pulls that data from the Registry? That IS where my Oblivion install is on Win 7.

Edit:

Changed the Default Path to this
c:\Temp1

All the ESM/p files end up in the top folder . another folder is created under that .. C:\Temp1\Francesco's mod has all the readme and Link to Forum, next is C:\Temp1\Francesco's mod\Unistall data empty cept for next Folder C:\Temp1\Francesco's mod\Unistall data\Main files 2 files in here...unis000.dat and Unis000.exe

It all depends on what you select while installing Frans.

This is very helpful, thanks. What I was trying to determine was whether the Fran installation was adding a data folder to the target folder, or whether it was installing to the target folder directly.

Edit: Are the instructions clearer now? The other reason not to go that route is you have to remove the extra junk from the Francesco's mod folder. I will just have users move the ReadMe out of the "Francesco's mod" folder and then delete the folder. The link to the forum must be out of date by now...it's been ages.

Following those instructions, did the Fran installer install the creatures-items ESM? the one FCOM users should not use.

Frans is a tough one cause of the EXE....I just redid the Install into that temp folder and Got a differant Size ESM for frans. this time it is Smaller then the one I have installed? I picked default Cell respawn AND default Day Length...

Also I dont see mention of ....Lycondor Combat Behavior?...That is the Choice before you pick MOBS.....I thought Mobs was a NO for the OOO version? and that we install OMOBS over everything? Ahhh Wheres CorePC you should be Picking His brain...lol

OMOBS is related to MOBS. The FCOM setup contains OMOBS and MOBS components and tweaks where necessary (i.e., with FCOM_Francescos.) However, not all of the MOBS settings are different. ONLY use the options listed in that section. You do not HAVE TO use the ones marked "(Optional)."

Edit: I need to add Lyondor's combat behavior. That should be used as well, thanks.

Fair enough. I'm not going to try and convince you to adopt BCFs. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion.

I agree that BCFs should not be necessary; authors should package their mods in a BAIN friendly format to begin with. However, there are plenty of mods out there that are no longer being updated that are perfect targets for BCFs.


True, it was a little off-topic. I just wanted to try and clarify some potential issues since you were emphasizing the need to clean esps.


I was afraid of this misunderstanding when I used TQP as the example. If you read what I wrote a little closer, you'd see that the situation was a hypothetical example. I devoted an entire paragraph to explaining that. TQP does NOT have this issue. It COULD have had it, if I hadn't taken the possibility into account.

I used TQP as the example because I was familiar with it and could describe a realistic situation in which it could break, IF I had done things differently when making it. Just to reiterate, cleaning TQP will have no effect at all in any situation whatsoever.

Again, no argument from me. This is why I repeated twice, using the same wording, that what I wrote doesn't apply to the majority of cases, and also stated that I was going a little offtopic. But, encouraging the wholesale cleaning of mods runs the risk that one of these minority cases will occur and leave someone with a broken mod. My belief is that instead of encouraging end users to clean the mod, they should instead be encouraged to contact the mod author and get them to clean it.

Of course, the mod author isn't always available or amiable to the suggestion that their mod needs cleaning, so :meh:

OK ..4 th Install today(yes this is just for Info) The (creatures-items ESM) the one NOT used for FCOM is installed by Default you need to Uncheck it in the installer near bottom of the optional files section. Hope this is all Helping.

P.S. Sorry again Psymon as this is your thread but all pertinant Info if it helps everyone install FCOM thru BAIN then all is good right? I did, but was a pain going Back and forth to different threads and Read-me's.

I may have mispoken earlier, but the ESM NOT to be used with FCOM is the Fran New Creature Add-on.esm.

But I still Followed what you ment..and yes this file>>>Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm was installed by default. Must be Unchecked during install.

I noted that and added a comment to the "Post your load order" page, to make it more clear. That path was only the default on Windows XP 32-bit. It may be the default on Vista 32-bit as well, I do not know. That definitely would not work for 64-bit users.

Well I was hoping to use the thread to fill in more updated examples and step by step instructions for doing various projects maybe cover new ideas and not go over what has been covered and what will be covered.

I mean I did http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/page__view__findpost__p__15802711 in the previous post that you can run the installer several times and make packages and sub-packages out of various results and that I would be writing that all up, but if you felt it necessary to eat up posts to have someone else double check that - what can I do? I can't control posters or anything.

What I get for posting before it is finished, I guess. All this would have been answered.

For myself this is not really super fun and I was hoping for a thread that would be around for sometime instead of eaten up in a week. I must make sure though to back up those top posts if ever I need to repost because managing the thread is not fun. Either it must be hosted or used by others as I doubt I will maintain updates to the thread every month.

I agree that the posts pertinent to my guide should go in its thread.


Thank you for letting us borrowing some space (permanently) Psymon,
- Tomlong75210

Well after http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1083993-in-depth-guide-for-installing-fcom-and-non-fcom-setups-with-bain/page__view__findpost__p__15795571 I guess we are even.

Really though people - Many questions will be answered ... have patience.

I guess I'm guilty of the same thing I criticize in others. It bugs me when mod makers implement more than they document (therefore making guides like this even necessary), yet I put an incomplete post up. I see now that at this rate this thread will be closed before I finish those first 10 posts. Maybe this is the WIP and I can repost those in another thread and then leave that thread for answering what was not clear in those posts.

I cleared my PM box before starting this thread - it is still mostly empty.

Just to be clear - the _BU_ prefixed ESPs are never installed - so no impact on BOSS. They are backups in case it turns out to be a mod that should not be cleaned.

I'm looking forward to seeing the really juicy stuff - the actual mods comprising the various BAIN projects.
Psymon, let me know if you need any help with that. I just went though all 1800 texture replacers at Nexus, browsing through endless pages of smut and porm to find the real gems, so I'm very up to date in that area.

Kudos! That is insane...so, what "gems" did you find? I am always looking out for texture replacers.

Hehe, don't be so impatient. Unless there is some special category you're interested in there's too many to list.
Once Psymon starts presenting his texture replacer BAIN projects, I'll let youse know if any worthwhile replacers are missing.

This a modified version of http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/lists/mybainlist Most of the texture replacers I have are there. I do not know what I removed form that section...stuff was snipped out of that list all over the place. I try to get high Rez replacers for about anything really. There are not that many options for many kinds of replacers.

I made a file listing of the files I downloaded from Nexus:

27.03.2010  04:50         1?668?258 Better_Blood_v11-24448.7z29.03.2010  00:53           285?856 Better_Book_Paper-26457.7z09.03.2010  01:36           627?725 Better_Meat_Hammy_McHamham_edition-17869.7z27.03.2010  06:54           331?813 Better_Silverware-27825.7z28.03.2010  07:18         6?182?322 Cathedral_Improver_Stained_glass-8227.7z28.03.2010  09:06           245?165 Cooked_Steaks_v1-1-17360.7z29.03.2010  12:12         1?254?393 Enhanced_Cobwebs_v2-9746.7z29.03.2010  08:40        10?006?483 High_Resolution_Hay_Bail_Textures-27138.7z29.03.2010  09:08        14?204?527 HiRes_Iron_Armor-30386.7z29.03.2010  09:07        13?082?973 HiRes_Iron_Weapons-30357.7z29.03.2010  09:06           929?877 HiRes_Staffs-29412.7z29.03.2010  12:17        45?927?217 Improved_Tapestries_v1.1-12002.7z29.03.2010  23:51        57?487?446 Mikes_Clothes_Replacer_v11-7487.7z29.03.2010  23:58            29?965 Non-plastic_clouded_crystal_balls-20019.7z25.03.2010  05:52        38?231?896 PK_LandscapeLOD_Color-27023.7z26.03.2010  07:03           398?060 Arrow_Replacement_Pack-9051.rar27.03.2010  04:29         5?871?571 Better_Dire_Creatures_textures_v1dot0-17911.rar27.03.2010  06:59        11?091?535 better_staffs_texture-3646.rar27.03.2010  07:00           826?951 Better_Thatched_Roofs-18579.rar28.03.2010  08:10           757?148 Better_Wine_-_OriginalSI_Update-14596.rar28.03.2010  08:10           298?347 Better_Wine_SI-14596.rar28.03.2010  08:09         1?405?579 CM_Arena_Poster-3850.rar28.03.2010  08:10           857?474 CM_Better_Wine-4429.rar28.03.2010  08:11        52?410?853 CSR1.2_textures-11451.rar28.03.2010  08:05         4?283?853 CSR1.2meshes-11451.rar29.03.2010  00:58         1?367?643 Forge_New_Textures-30555.rar09.03.2010  02:20         5?087?582 Jade_Dishes_v1.02-7693.rar29.03.2010  23:52         1?249?969 JazzJRsSkeletonretexture-18977.rar29.03.2010  22:05           847?195 Khajiit_Face_Retexture-7930.rar29.03.2010  22:11         3?630?403 KOldorns_Alternate_Auroran_Texture_2-9583.rar29.03.2010  22:10         3?604?549 Koldorns_Alternate_Auroran_Texture-8707.rar30.03.2010  13:47           158?054 Slaughterfish_Retexture-9343.rar30.03.2010  15:58            16?579 Twinkling_Gold-4331.rar30.03.2010  16:11        21?071?891 WLGM_normal_-26406.rar27.03.2010  07:42            78?588 Blood_Retex-5636.zip28.03.2010  07:00            33?981 Brighter_Sparks_v12-6474.zip28.03.2010  07:58         2?102?116 ChillrendReplacer-21631.zip29.03.2010  00:44           246?399 Enhanced_Magic_Effects-9424.zip13.03.2010  15:15           999?576 Gorier_Blood-3990.zip29.03.2010  08:26            82?525 Hammerfist_Shiny_Gold-5629.zip29.03.2010  08:39         2?206?958 HighRes_Staff-2792.zip27.03.2010  22:03        20?637?736 IAFT_Improved_Argonian_Facial_Textures-6611.zip13.03.2010  16:23         3?385?337 Kafeis_Better_Amulet_Replacer_V1.0-4126.zip13.03.2010  16:23         2?093?497 Kafeis_Better_Ring_Replacer-4107.zip29.03.2010  23:28        33?008?852 MEAT-14660.zip30.03.2010  10:49           356?456 Painted_Paintings_Textures-4047.zip23.03.2010  21:49         2?702?915 Real_Night_Sky_2-16617.zip30.03.2010  12:45        28?672?665 Robe_mesh_Replacer-11357.zip30.03.2010  12:48        33?650?863 Robe_Mesh_Replacer-12943.zip

Thanks! I will start making more mod bookmarks.

Edit: Oh, gee. I think I have to bookmark about half of those. I think I have the other half already, haha.

Edit: bookmarked the post instead

Well I just am not having the steam to finish this overnight - maybe later tonight or tomorrow with coffee I can tackle some more of the first 10 posts.

Then later I was going to post examples of various kinds. But Petrus I've not updated even my own textures BAIN package much lately, but feel free to post your own ideas.

I do have most of those though and will eventually package them smarter - as it is right now they are in a package that looks like this:

Other Replacers-BAIN   │   ├[10 Clothes 1 - Mikes Clothes Replacer]   ├[10 Clothes 2 - Cali Female Finery]   ├[10 Clothes 3 - Kafeis Amulets Rings]   ├[10 Clothes 3 - MIkel 33 Amulets Rings]   ├[20 Armor 1 - Otup Armor]   ├[20 Armor 2 - Kalikuts Green Glass]   ├[20 Armor 3 - Dark Bro Armor]   ├[20 Armor 4 - Slofs Arena Rainments]   ├[25 Insanity Sorrow Normal Maps Replacements]   ├[26 Insanity Sorrow Unique Weapons]   ├[27 Insanity Sorrow Enhanced Artifacts]   ├[29 Madness Armor Retexture]   ├[30 Weapon 1 - MEAT]   ├[30 Weapon 2 - Better Staff Textures]   ├[30 Weapon 3 - Arrow Replacement]   ├[30 Weapon 4 - Fine and Rusty OOO]   ├[30 Weapon 5 CSR]   ├[30 Weapon 6 Longer Arrows]   ├[50 Items - Gold 1 - Hammerfist]   ├[50 Items - Gold 2 - VA Gold +Shiny gold]   ├[50 Items - Gold 3 - Shiny Septims]   ├[50 Items - Tools - Better Metal]   ├[51 Items - Glittering Prizes]   ├[52 Items - Improved Fruits Veggies Meat]   ├[60 Objects - Clutter - Vibrant]   ├[60 Objects - Clutter - Vibrant SI]   ├[60 Objects - Tapestries - Paintings]   ├[60 Objects - Tapestries - Unicorn]   ├[60 Objects - Weathered Signs]   ├[61 Objects - Mikel Improved Signs]   ├[62 Objects - Mikel 33 - Doors]   ├[65 Objects - Little things Pt 1]   ├[66 Poor Mans Clutter V1]   ├[67 Fear-Rabbits Potion Replacer]   ├[67 Li Phial and glass replacer]   ├[70 Effects - Gorier Blood]   ├[80 Animals - Slaughterfish retex]   ├[80 Animals - Slofs Alien Clanfear]   ├[80 Animals - Slofs Tiger] 

But I will be adding more that I've collected and breaking this package up and use better naming conventions. All this I see as different from World Textures and to be installed after clutter and other World Texture replacers. I place things like Khajiit face retexture in a cosmetic compilation and have already been moving creature retextures into their own package (what with mythic retextures and all).

Great list though! Will check some of those out.

I think one thing that people appreciated about the last thread was that really it was a mod recommendation thread. Sort of a themed 'what are the best mods' type thing with links to the mods so that they can see for themselves.

So sorry I lag at this. Real life has taken me away, but I will get more done. Really the first ten posts were the main goal and I will cover world textures, LOD, and Sky Replacers probably in one of those. Then later add packages regarding various themes in other posts. Themes like the four Magic mods BAIN packages I have, Stealth, Combat, UL, Horses, More quest mods packaged with patches, Houses, Dungeons, Companions, and so on.

This clearly shows the advantage of BAIN over OBMM, creating an archive of all textures and the ability to mix and match until you get it just right. I am too new to the forums to know whether there is an easy way to print this information? I have been doing copy and paste into Word but that is a pain.

Your browser doesn't have a print function?
I'd use that with greyscale printing to save color ink.
That way it will save the formatting.

Really though most of it is rudimentary and you can do this work with a browser open and minimized. Much of this, once learned, is actually a chore to review.

=========================

And to let everyone know - most of what I intended for the basic posts (1-5) is complete. I will update if more becomes salient and the rest will get done ... eventually.

Tried browser print but text too small for my old eyes. Copy and paste to Word actually turned out easier than expected and gives me the ability to edit out items I can skip (not that you don't write beutifully). I like the Cliff Notes version from the old college days

Keep up the good work, I for one appreciate the information, easier to understand than the Wrye instructions. Between this and Tomlong I expect to be BAINing within a week.

Here I wouldd add
10 Clothes >1 - Robe Mesh Replacer
containing the files from http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11357 and then overwritten by http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12943
This overwrites a few of Mike's Clothes Replacer's robes with (IMO) better looking ones.

Also add 10 Clothes 2.5 - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16259
This one retextures all (I think) amulets and rings, so load it before Kafei's and Mikel's. It also adds new amulets and rings for sale, and makes quest items playable, but that is optional - just don't include the ESP in the archive if you only want to use it as a replacer.




What is Dark Bro Armor?
Shouldn't MEAT be in the Armor section?

Here I would add:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22253
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30386



Arrow Replacement and Longer Arrows conflict. I'd only use one of them. In this set-up AR will be completely overwritten by LA.

Alternatives to Better Staff Retextures, even though that one is my preferred choice:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2792
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29412

I would also add:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30357
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21631




Which one of these do people prefer? Hard to test them, I found out...
VA Gold +Shiny gold - is that a combinatopm of VA Gold and Hammerfist Shiny Gold?
You may also consider adding http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4331.




Do you have a link for Better Metal?
Glittering Prizes conflicts with the Gold replacers above, so maybe load it before instead?
An alternative to Vibrant Clutter is the clutter from http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30368 It retextures about 30 more items than Vibrant, so even if you prefer Vibrant, you could load Mtgr first.
Also, I think I would treat both Vibrant Textures and the clutter part of Mtgr Texture Pack as the core Clutter replacers and load them before the Gold and other specialized replacers.

You may want to add:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17869
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17360
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7693 Not a replacer, but adds Jade Dishes to the leveles lists.



Other, more lore friendly, alternatives:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12002
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30327
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4047

I'd use either only Tapestries&Paintings or the more lore friendly combination of Mtgr Tapestries and rugs + Painted Paintings.



I'd add the brilliant http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25314 It conflicts with Mikel's so I'd load it after.



Do you have a link to "Little things"?

Also consider:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4574
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4429 and its http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14596.
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27825
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20019

For Blood there are several alternatives:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24448
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5636




Here I'd definitely add:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14532
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29569 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29638
These two will conflict to a great degree, so load the one you prefer last. Mythic is more high res.




After learning the basics of BAIN, in which your posts have been a great inspiration, for me it was also a great source of the best texture replacers. And I hope my own contribution can help make this thread not only a great thread for efficient mod management, but also as a great source for the best texture replacers.
And I'm looking forward to see the rest of your projects, but there's no hurry, of course. After all this is a hobby, not work.