So here's the deal: I'm not happy with my copy of the PS3 and Bethesda, based on previous and current actions, is not working under good faith to fix the issue (not DIRECTLY addressing if the new patch will fix the issue). So I called up Bethesda to get a refund, he's what happened:

Yesterday around noon: Speak with a CSR in tech support about getting a refund, they say that they'll send an email and that I'll have to photograph the receipt as proof of purchase for them to release the funds and that then I'll have to send the game to them in the box that they'll send out within X number of days (can't remember the amount.

An hour later: I get an email saying that they have to have my full and correct address on file to proceed. That's all well and good I send it to them and wait the email for me to reply with the photographs of my receipt.

Today around noon: No email. I call to check on the status and make sure that they sent it to the right address. Now apparently a different CSR is on the phone saying that there is no way for them to refund the money for the game. They absolutely will not hear of any argument and insist that no one ever told me that they would consider refunding. I demand to speak with a supervisor, but they will not come to the phone and will only converse via email. I'm now waiting (an hour has passed) to get an email from them, because they won't even give out their email address.

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Whether you think I should wait for the patch that will allegedly fix the issue or not, Bethesda has a strict liability for quality control on products that they manufacture and publish. They are completely walling themselves off from any recourse for consumers to fix the situation. This is UNACCEPTABLE.

That's no big surprise - you didn't buy the game from them, why would you get your money back from them? Take it back to whatever retailer you bought it from and get your refund there.

I went to the place i bought my copy and got a refund I didn't have to argue it just took a little time and I explain what happened, and I got my whole Col Edition cost back and left the store. I'm sure ill go back and buy a used copy once this problem is done but until then I'm just gona play something else.

Pathetic lag fest. Fix you're game Beth.

Gamestop won't refund opened new games. It doesn't matter if the product went through three distributors, the manufacturer has the ultimate responsibility for the quality of the games released.

Edit: Additionally, they apparently DID have a refund policy one day, and then didn't the next. The whole situation absolutely reeks.

That's where I got my refund, it just takes a while and maybe I got lucky with the person I talked to but I'm 100% sure I got my money back.

Yeah, I'm sure that it depends on the branch/workers. In any event, the responsibility shouldn't fall to the distributor as they were an innocent middleman.

Yeah this is true, I only buy my game stuff from this Gamestop and they know me as well, I'm sure that might have had something to do with it.

Gamestop will refund opened new games. Typically you have around a week or so to return it, and sometimes you have to whine to a manager or something to get it done. At worst you could even send an email to a regional manager through their website.

Bethesda didn't even get the whole $60 that you paid for the game, so they don't even have your entire payment to give back to you in the first place.

This is like getting food poisoning at Red Lobster and then expecting the fisherman to refund your meal.

Funny you should say that. They [GameStop] open your copies of games, why can't they refund your opened game? Read this article and you'll know what I'm talking about.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/24/technology/gamestop_coupons/index.htm


Obviously they have no problem with opened packaging and think it's "No big deal, it's still a new disk" when they open it.

Technically, your disk is also "like new", so you should get your refund.

Power to the players my @$$

http://www.bbb.org/

And leave the complaint open until they refund your money.

Yep that would work too if nothing else did - though again that would be a complaint against the retailer. File a non-refund complaint against Bethesda there and all they have to respond is "the game wasn't bought from us" and the case will be closed.

GameStop is the devil.

I'm not so heated about this until the patch works or does not work. If it doesn't work, then we'll raise the pitch forks and see what sort of consumer rights people have to get their money back or a full price store credit at least. While it's unplausible to me that this was not tested on the PS3 and discovered prior to release, I'll sip the Kool-Aid because the first 20 hours or so were very fun until the lag plague started.

I am liking that the patch won't require me to start over from a new game (according to one allegedly official tweet).

It's a bit disturbing they haven't released any sort of statement other than the Tweet 5 or 6 days ago. Hopefully someone could say something about this issue---if they don't believe they have some damage control to do they should read the amazon.com reviews for the ps3 version, the massive number of 1 star reviews will damn the sales there.

And then you re-open it and/or file again. (and really people should be filing complaints against both the retailer and Bethesda/ZeniMax)

And this is why lawyers get involved and class action suits are brought. Let Bethesda [censored] all over their fans, let's see how it works out for them. 420 million in profits from copies sold, I can only imagine the amount of attorneys out there that would love to have a case like this.

That is a completely inaccurate anology. In your situation you would obviously expect RL to refund the price since they had every opportunity to evaluate the food quality and cook/prepare it properly. The subject situation is more like having a tractor produced by John Deere and distributed through Wal-Mart, then having the tractor fail to start. You would take your tractor to a John Deere service center for repair/replacement or for a refund, as the middleman didn't have the knowhow/opportunity to evaluate the product.

I guess the [censored] really did hit the fan this time. LOL

OK I'll snag your anology - as a matter of fact if you buy any product at Wal-Mart and it's defective you absolutely should return it to Wal-Mart. First, so they can refund you or get the product repaired on your behalf, and second, so they are made aware that they were given a defective product in the first place and can go back to the manufacturer directly to address the issue. If you bypass the middleman they'll never know there's a problem and they'll continue to distribute the defective product. If you go back through them then they're going ot have more leverage than you'll ever have to get the manufacturer to fix the root problem.

I tried that, but the middleman in my situation has a store policy that forbids replacement, therefore the only available recourse left to the consumer is via the producer (the party that caused the issue in the first place). Furthermore, if get a refund from Gamestop, the loss would incur to them, not the responsible party. Taken to the ultimate conclusion, Bethesda would never feel responsible for fixing/releasing future working titles as they would incur no penalty for defective releases.

If you paid with a credit card couldn't you just put that charge in dispute? Tell the cc company the game is broke and doesn't work and you're not paying for it.

Incorrect on both counts - Gamestop will give you a refund, you just need to talk to somebody there who has the power to do so and not give up until they do. And Gamestop isn't "losing" anything, they're just giving back money you've already given to them. They break even. Then they either sell the game to someone else to get back in the black, or they return it directly to the manufacturer and keep the complaint going back up the line to the source.

The problem places like GameStop, Best Buy, etc., has with offering a sane refund policy are all these idiotic codes games come with these days. So once you've entered that code, GameStop essentially can't resell that title as new anymore. Has to be sold as used with the buyer knowing those codes may be invalid.

Thankfully, one nice thing about Skyrim is the lack of such codes. So you probably just need to find a reasonable person with the authority to realize that is a same as new product (assuming you've got all the manuals, map, etc.).

Ultimately the producer has to be held responsible, in your suggested scenario, there is a high degree of certainty that they would not. Gamestop may eventually give me a refund, but that is beside the point. If they do give me a refund, they'll still lose money. Originally they had two games, now if they take one back they must sell one used. This cuts into their profit margin (albeit slightly). But overall, you seem to either be doing one of two things a ) acting as a devil's advocate for a ridiculous policy of not warranting a game (at least NOW not warrantying... originally they supposedly would have) or b ) giving a game developer with shoddy business practices a complete pass. Either way I see no point in continuing this dialog.

If I were Bethesda, I'd make the update be part of a ps3 firmware update so that anyone who wants a refund can't get one because they aren't playing it on the correct firmware version. All I'd have to do is wait until Monday, 11/28.

I think that's not only the right move for them to make, but I hope that's what they're doing. No one should get money back for a game that works.