Blue Textures Explained

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:15 pm

Note: Some folks are having success with the 11.10 WHQL drivers and the atiogl.dll file from the Preview 3 drivers (see thread(s) on this topic). If that works for you, great.

The 11.10 WHQL drivers worked for me right away, but I was able to replicate blue textures by (a) activating large textures, and, separately, (B) maxing out resolution.

Blue textures appear when you are attempting to run your rig at a higher quality setting than it is capable of with the WHQL drivers.

The "culprits" in order of decreasing payback are:

1. delete any custom config files you've been using prior to these drivers
2. decrease the texture cache from large to small if you've been running it a large
3. lower the resolution
4. lower AA and AF settings
5. overclock your rig
6. defrag your rig
7. reduce background programs

I dont know how much VRAM you need to run at resolutions above 1280 x 1024, large texture size cache, and/or customized non-default quality params in config files. All I can tell you is that on my rig, which is below minimum specs, I have ZERO texture popping, texture tearing, and crash defects running at 1024 x 768, 8x AA, High AF, Vsynch OFF (FPS runs between 45 and 60), without steps 5 - 7 above. Including 5-7 above, I'm able to run at 1280 x 1024 defect free. Keeping in mind that I have an OLD HD3870X2 card and Phenom II CPU. So if you meet specs, you should be able to run at least this high in quality.

Hope this works for ya!

Now that the game can be played without config headaches, I'm gonna replay it without the console enabled so I can play it without that pesky "achievements have been disabled" screen, lol.
User avatar
Jinx Sykes
 
Posts: 3501
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:12 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 10:10 pm

I just want to know when you're next album is coming out, I didn't care so much for the last one :wink_smile:
User avatar
Andrew Perry
 
Posts: 3505
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:40 am

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 2:57 am

I just want to know when you're next album is coming out, I didn't care so much for the last one :wink_smile:


Aye....plus you ruined Van Halen as well :P
User avatar
Rach B
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:30 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 11:59 pm

I chose Sammy Hagar as a username as a tribute to the Hagar territory in the game.

I hate it when I have to explain my puns.
User avatar
NAtIVe GOddess
 
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:46 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 10:07 pm

That absolutely didn't work for me... no matter how low I set the graphics (and I run 1280x1024 on a Phenom II + 6870 1GB) it's all blue LOL.
User avatar
Laura Elizabeth
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:34 pm

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 3:20 am

OK, I've successfully replicated hugely insane texture corruptions, with a good deal of blue present (and many other colours too, for good measure) on my NVIDIA.

How? Simple.

By forcing AF to 16x in the driver control panel.

If you are doing this, stop it now. Do not force AF in your driver control panel. Switch it back to "Application Controlled" (or whatever the equivalent is for AMD).

Likewise, if you're using any of the cvars to control AF in a rageconfig, don't go above 4.

Rage doesn't use traditional texturing, AF means something completely different for it, and forcing settings (or using values outside of the documented ranges) will cause texture trouble.
User avatar
Kelli Wolfe
 
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:09 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 10:27 pm

OK, I've successfully replicated hugely insane texture corruptions, with a good deal of blue present (and many other colours too, for good measure) on my NVIDIA.

How? Simple.

By forcing AF to 16x in the driver control panel.

If you are doing this, stop it now. Do not force AF in your driver control panel. Switch it back to "Application Controlled" (or whatever the equivalent is for AMD).

Likewise, if you're using any of the cvars to control AF in a rageconfig, don't go above 4.

Rage doesn't use traditional texturing, AF means something completely different for it, and forcing settings (or using values outside of the documented ranges) will cause texture trouble.

RAGE's megatexture only supports up to 4x AF for various technical reasons that were documented by Carmack about 2 years ago.
User avatar
Robert Bindley
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:31 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 9:02 pm

doesnt work for me.
User avatar
evelina c
 
Posts: 3377
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:28 pm

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 5:12 am

Deosn't work for me. I have tried every setting up and down and it makes no difference.
Waiting for next rellease from AMD, not sure when that will be though.

As I have always said, if you going to do something do it well, or not at all....
User avatar
Rachael Williams
 
Posts: 3373
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:43 pm

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 1:35 am

What is actually causing the blue textures? I think I remember someone saying it's how IT5 is trying to render a new shader.

Applying AF to AppControlled worked for me btw.
User avatar
Claire Lynham
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:42 am

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:03 am

Note: Some folks are having success with the 11.10 WHQL drivers and the atiogl.dll file from the Preview 3 drivers (see thread(s) on this topic). If that works for you, great.

The 11.10 WHQL drivers worked for me right away, but I was able to replicate blue textures by (a) activating large textures, and, separately, (B) maxing out resolution.

Blue textures appear when you are attempting to run your rig at a higher quality setting than it is capable of with the WHQL drivers.

The "culprits" in order of decreasing payback are:

1. delete any custom config files you've been using prior to these drivers
2. decrease the texture cache from large to small if you've been running it a large
3. lower the resolution
4. lower AA and AF settings
5. overclock your rig
6. defrag your rig
7. reduce background programs

I dont know how much VRAM you need to run at resolutions above 1280 x 1024, large texture size cache, and/or customized non-default quality params in config files. All I can tell you is that on my rig, which is below minimum specs, I have ZERO texture popping, texture tearing, and crash defects running at 1024 x 768, 8x AA, High AF, Vsynch OFF (FPS runs between 45 and 60), without steps 5 - 7 above. Including 5-7 above, I'm able to run at 1280 x 1024 defect free. Keeping in mind that I have an OLD HD3870X2 card and Phenom II CPU. So if you meet specs, you should be able to run at least this high in quality.

Hope this works for ya!

Now that the game can be played without config headaches, I'm gonna replay it without the console enabled so I can play it without that pesky "achievements have been disabled" screen, lol.


blue texture has nothing to do with maxing out things or lowering textures or pc not handling what ever. My system was working perfect with a past fixed from AMD and sorry I cant remember what it was. I installed this new one thinking all the problems are fixed and now I get blue texture. I have a 6970 with aan AMD 980 clocked at 4.3 with 8GB hyperx at 8,8,8,24 T1. the problem is the drivers and not our systems
User avatar
Tina Tupou
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:37 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 9:55 pm

People should go read the following thread:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1249144-ati-1110-final-drivers-fix/

Incidentally most people playing this game will have a rig that far exceeds the consoles it was designed for. Spouting crap about it's because you have enabled high this, that and the other is not productive. The games textures in "high" are not much better than them in "low" other than it seems to cache more and therefore gives less draw/loads. My system while not cutting age is still miles better than a console and I should not expect to have to use those lower settings. Also because PC users can customise their settings in and out the game can give a wide varying of issues that can cause the game to crash, not load properly or look crap (blue). This in part is down to the game design and is in part down to the hardware vendor of your graphics card. AMD seem to be suffering more than most and have never been great with OpenGL but it's not limited to them.

There are further hints to the game being at fault too that if you set the AMD drivers, not limited to AMD as I have tried on an old Nvidia board this can happen too, the settings to "Application Controlled" you can get a worse performance, detail level and bad texturing.

Examples:
Terrain can gap causing blue lines between surfaces when FSAA is controlled by Rage instead of by the driver.
Texture load can be slower or appear to cause less caching of loaded textures if the AF is set to be controlled by Rage.
Texture quality can be poor if certain types of FSAA are set in the driver. I have seen everything from square boxes on the ground where texture segments are drawn.
Texture quality can be poor if certain AF types are used and you are in a vehicle doing speed. It can cause excessive blurring.

In short it is as much down to the user to give a few settings a try to see if performance/visual quality can be improved as it is down to the game publisher and creators to give better support and information. There are people in both camps of Bethesda Zenimax and Id Software to be capable of providing some basics at least. They're plenty of clever people in those organisations.

I do however think that the bottom line to the issues are that the engine was changed to be friendly to the XBOX360 and even more so for the PS3 based on John Carmack's comments. The low resolution textures that litter the game and the constant need to draw textures make the game feel shoddy. There is also, reading between the lines, that this did not have to be the case for the PC.
I would have personally been happy to have not seen the game till 2012 and have the better game than have a poorly designed console game made to work in sorts on the PC.
User avatar
Prue
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:27 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 11:37 pm

blue texture has nothing to do with maxing out things or lowering textures or pc not handling what ever. My system was working perfect with a past fixed from AMD and sorry I cant remember what it was. I installed this new one thinking all the problems are fixed and now I get blue texture. I have a 6970 with aan AMD 980 clocked at 4.3 with 8GB hyperx at 8,8,8,24 T1. the problem is the drivers and not our systems

I know for a fact that I can make blue textures appear on demand by simply increasing the resolution or increasing the quality settings at a given resolution.

I also know for a fact that the game runs flawlessly on my machine up to a certain point of resolution and image quality.

I have read enough about texture streaming and quality parameters to be pretty sure that my original statement is valid.

I have relayed my experience here.

If you are sure that blue textures has nothing to do with the load put on a pc, and your system was working perfect with a prior driver, you should probably revert to that driver and ignore those of us trying to get the game to run properly while amd and bethesda attempt to get their [censored] together.
User avatar
Richus Dude
 
Posts: 3381
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:17 am

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 2:47 am

Spouting crap about it's because you have enabled high this, that and the other is not productive.

You don't seem to be aware of it, but video hardware has a number of maximums for certain things, and one of those is the maximum texture size you can create. Most modern hardware allows you to create textures with a size of 8192x8192 or more, but a few years ago this maximum size could be 4096x4096 or lower. (On some hardware it may not even be a square texture).

Creating a texture larger than this maximum size is not allowed. So if you try to create 8k textures on video hardware than can only support 4k, the texture creation will fail. How does a program know if texture creation fails? A number of ways, but the important thing is that the driver itself should not crash on a failure. It will either return an error code or set an error flag that the program can then query to find out what happened, and decide on an appropriate course of action for. But the program is entirely dependent on the driver to return the correct error.

If you try to use an invalid texture in your program, the behaviour is well defined by both Direct3D and OpenGL, http://tomsdxfaq.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_archive.html#88502992.

So no, this is not spouting crap. There is a maximum texture size, and going over it can cause bad things to happen.

This is one of the reasons why "but it works with everything else" is not a valid complaint. Nothing else uses textures this large (an 8192x8192 32-bit texture is 256 MB; on a 1 GB video card you'll only be able to create 3 of these - because you need memory for the framebuffer, vertex buffers, etc too - before you run out of video memory). Rage uses 4 textures for it's megatexture, however (remember, the 4 cvars you need to change to 8192).

What happens when you run out of video memory depends on the driver, and only on the driver. Most drivers should swap textures (and other objects like vertex buffers) out to system memory to make extra room, and then swap them back in when they're needed. Do this too many times per frame and the result will be hitching, uneven framerates, stalls, horrible low performance, and all the other things that should sound familiar.

Now let's look at AA. The framebuffer needs video RAM too; a 32-bit display running at - say - 1600x900 - needs 5 MB. Add another 5 MB for the depth/stencil buffer. If you're doing post-processing, you also need to create extra render target textures to use for that. Conservatively we'll say 2 of these, giving 20 MB (5 colour + 5 depth/stencil and double it). AA will increase this overhead x2, x4, x8, etc. That leaves less memory available for textures, less for vertex buffers, less for other objects. End result is a higher risk of the swapping I mentioned above.

Once again, nobody is spouting crap here. This is the way video hardware works. Live with it.
User avatar
Nikki Lawrence
 
Posts: 3317
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:27 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:57 pm

this fixed blue textures for me
after you upgrade to the newest drivers, put the ati file in your rage folder and hopefully all problems will be solved

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1252105-got-rage-to-work-semi-work-at-least/

seemed too simple to be true, but it worked
User avatar
sophie
 
Posts: 3482
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:31 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:41 pm

I know for a fact that I can make blue textures appear on demand by simply increasing the resolution or increasing the quality settings at a given resolution.

I also know for a fact that the game runs flawlessly on my machine up to a certain point of resolution and image quality.

I have read enough about texture streaming and quality parameters to be pretty sure that my original statement is valid.

I have relayed my experience here.

If you are sure that blue textures has nothing to do with the load put on a pc, and your system was working perfect with a prior driver, you should probably revert to that driver and ignore those of us trying to get the game to run properly while amd and bethesda attempt to get their [censored] together.
I know you did your research and I know that what your seeing is true. Yes what you are saying has a meaning to you and you alone. Cause how can you explain my situation? I also get blue texture with new drivers but when I go back to 11.9 and apply the rage hotfix everything is perfect and I mean perfect. You cant dismiss that cause I also saw the blue texture and in my case has nothing to do with computer. blue texture will stay no matter what I do until I go back to old drivers like I said. But, sorry if I offended you.
User avatar
Dean
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:58 pm

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 3:38 am

I know you did your research and I know that what your seeing is true. Yes what you are saying has a meaning to you and you alone. Cause how can you explain my situation? I also get blue texture with new drivers but when I go back to 11.9 and apply the rage hotfix everything is perfect and I mean perfect. You cant dismiss that cause I also saw the blue texture and in my case has nothing to do with computer. blue texture will stay no matter what I do until I go back to old drivers like I said. But, sorry if I offended you.

I am in the same situation blue textures on the latest drivers all settings maxed. With the 11.8 .dll fix I run at the same settings and everything runs fine. I'm sure graphic card power and architecture has an effect on how this is happening, but for all intents and purposes this looks like a driver issue to me. As other drivers like the 11.6 .dll cause an awful glare. The tech support for this game leaves something to be desired all of it is coming from the community while almost no help, that I can see, has come from AMD or ID. This is why this is a mess. I am going to stick with companies that actually support thier product like Blizzard and be done with this mess once and for all.
User avatar
Wayland Neace
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:01 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:44 pm

You don't seem to be aware of it, but video hardware has a number of maximums for certain things, and one of those is the maximum texture size you can create. Most modern hardware allows you to create textures with a size of 8192x8192 or more, but a few years ago this maximum size could be 4096x4096 or lower. (On some hardware it may not even be a square texture).

Creating a texture larger than this maximum size is not allowed. So if you try to create 8k textures on video hardware than can only support 4k, the texture creation will fail. How does a program know if texture creation fails? A number of ways, but the important thing is that the driver itself should not crash on a failure. It will either return an error code or set an error flag that the program can then query to find out what happened, and decide on an appropriate course of action for. But the program is entirely dependent on the driver to return the correct error.

If you try to use an invalid texture in your program, the behaviour is well defined by both Direct3D and OpenGL, http://tomsdxfaq.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_archive.html#88502992.

So no, this is not spouting crap. There is a maximum texture size, and going over it can cause bad things to happen.

This is one of the reasons why "but it works with everything else" is not a valid complaint. Nothing else uses textures this large (an 8192x8192 32-bit texture is 256 MB; on a 1 GB video card you'll only be able to create 3 of these - because you need memory for the framebuffer, vertex buffers, etc too - before you run out of video memory). Rage uses 4 textures for it's megatexture, however (remember, the 4 cvars you need to change to 8192).

What happens when you run out of video memory depends on the driver, and only on the driver. Most drivers should swap textures (and other objects like vertex buffers) out to system memory to make extra room, and then swap them back in when they're needed. Do this too many times per frame and the result will be hitching, uneven framerates, stalls, horrible low performance, and all the other things that should sound familiar.

Now let's look at AA. The framebuffer needs video RAM too; a 32-bit display running at - say - 1600x900 - needs 5 MB. Add another 5 MB for the depth/stencil buffer. If you're doing post-processing, you also need to create extra render target textures to use for that. Conservatively we'll say 2 of these, giving 20 MB (5 colour + 5 depth/stencil and double it). AA will increase this overhead x2, x4, x8, etc. That leaves less memory available for textures, less for vertex buffers, less for other objects. End result is a higher risk of the swapping I mentioned above.

Once again, nobody is spouting crap here. This is the way video hardware works. Live with it.

If the game is set to work on a console in which it was designed for and the PC has vastly more power then out of the box it should work on high settings. I am fully aware of the memory situations but do you think either the XBOX and/or PS3 have this amount of memory in them?
Do they have blue textures?
Leaving the settings on high and putting the correct driver on the system and in the correct place fixes it?
I believe so... So speaking about whether something is high, low or this that or the other

The only person mentioning modifying the game to intentionally blow the memory is you. No one else on this thread suggested that in the threads. But since you bring it up why does a 2Gb video card, 16Gb DDR3 and a 6 core i7 come up with the problems on both Nvidia and AMD hardware with out of the box install + patches?
Incidentally I borrowed a friends Auss ROG (4Gb) and without altering my system at all, not one bit, not even the AMD drivers (as it detected the card perfectly) - blue screen of textures.
Simple. The drivers are fubar.

So yes spouting crap about your system not being high will cause the problem. The problem is more likely to be the drivers in the first place than being your system not up to scratch unless you intentionally go overboard with the tweaking.
Go look across the forum and most people are going "I'm a noob, I got this problem, Help!" are not going to be in to having a console, tweaking and understand what on earth they are up to.
My point stands. It's better to fix your drivers then worry about what else it can be than go for the small % who might have over-tweaked and getting the problem. I would also suspect that those who over-tweak have the sense to understand they broke it and revert the settings back and thus understand.
User avatar
lydia nekongo
 
Posts: 3403
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:04 pm


Return to Othor Games