Searched for answers on the pros and cons of these and couldn't find any. So I'm posting these here. (note: I don't have Dawnguard yet, so I'm not sure how the lack of this might affect this).

I'm halfway into completing my dream home at Heljarchen Hall. It's my only Hearthfire home that I'm building so far. Just completed the family wing with the intention of adopting and making this my official base home. But haven't adopted any kids or hired any staff as of yet. I was fine with this plan until I discovered you can upgrade Breezehome in Whiterun with a children's room. Apparently you can adopt up to 2 children? So now I'm in a bit of a quandary.

I really want to take advantage of living in Heljarchen Hall, my large, beautiful--and most $$$$$---custom manor with the perfect family layout (family, kitchen & apothecary wings and all the outdoor support buildings). BUT

Unlike Breezehome, Heljarchen Hall will be vulnerable to Giant, vampires, bandits etc. attack since it's outside the protection of a walled city like Whiterun. So my family won't be safe

On the other hand, if I upgrade Breezehome, I'm going to lose my awesome baking oven, growing & making my own food, mill, farm, kitchen & fish hatchery, stables, garden, and all the amazing other wings in my Hearthfire mansion for the safe walls of Whiterun

So for those of you who have already built a Hearthfire home and adopted kids is it possible to:

1. Relocate them from a Hearthfire home into Breezehome? If so, will your spouse also relocate to Breezehome if you're married? OR

2. Is it possible to adopt MORE THAN 2 KIDS with the Hearthfire expansion? Has anyone tried to do this (without mods)? I read somewhere that there is a little girl in Whiterun who asks you to adopt her. Got this from the Elderscrolls Wikia site. So I'm speculating that this why the devs included the children's room upgrade for Breezehome with Hearthfire. Hmmm.

3. If you adopt the little girl in Whiterun and/or another child from the orphanage, wouldn't this mean you could technically adopt up to 4 children? Or even more with the other 2 remaining homes??

I wish the DLC included the option for us to upgrade ALL of the vanilla homes with children's rooms. I'd have given anything just to upgrade Proudspire or Hjerim with the option to adopt and raise a family there. Or more realistically, Hearthfire shoud've given us the option to build a wooden stockade wall around the new homes. These would be similar to the setup at the Orc encampments. A security wall that that with a lookout post would've gone a long way IMO.

Ah well. If I can't relocate my family to Whiterun after moving them into the new home, then I guess I'll have to use the Tundra Defense mod to setup some sort of garrison security outpost.

Raising your kids in the safety of a city hold just seems more fitting though

You can only adopt 2 children, your entire family travels together after that, your wife does not live in a seperate house. You can relocate them to any home with suitable sleeping arrangements for the children.

And personally I think Breezehome is too small for a family, Hearthfire does include the option to upgrade all your current homes. Hjerim or Proudspire Manor would be better family options, and you gain more room by upgrading them. That said Heljarchen Hall is pretty safe. You could try all of them.

Just remember to empty that wardrobe near the secret entrance to your enchanting/alchemy room in Hjerim, since you lose it and anything in it when adding the little area for the children.

Thanks for the feedback.
Damn. Looks like they'll end up having to live outside the city walls. Maybe a modder will come up with a wall defense stockade kit that you can place on the perimeter of the house. That would go a long way to keeping those pesky giant thieves away from my livestock

But on the bright side, this is probably best because it will help the kids build character!

Yes, Breezehome is too small, and you would lose your alchemy lab to make space for the children.

As for the giants near Heljarchen, kill the closest one, if you're there often enough it won't re-spawn. The other does, but I rarely see them, and have only had giants by my house twice.

I think that between you, your spouse (if he/she is a combatant), and your housecarl, you should be able to stomp any giants or banditos flat. Add in a combatant steward, a follower, and a doggie for extra defensive power. And children will generally flee from danger (and they can't actually die anyway).

I saw a thread where having an adopted child in Breezehome leads to some interesting dialogue. So you might want to try moving them there for a while. Then move them somewhere else later. Also, you can convert the children's room in Breezehome back into an alchemy lab I think. At least, when I bought the children's room from the steward, there was a dialogue option to convert it to an alchemy lab. So I don't think you are stuck if you go down either path.

That's true. You can even use the other house as a bachelor pad of sorts. Fill it with weapons, mead, and other kid-unfriendly stuff.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Very helpful!

Now I have a new dilemma. Made the critical mistake of watching this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOpFpmnIW1s


Also at 1:08, the video says "if you've already built your home you'll get the option to change the alchemy lab to a children's room".

1. I thought this was only possible at Breezehome? Or does it apply to other vanilla homes as well?

2. Can someone confirm if the max number of adoptable kids from the Orphanage is 2? or 3? Or is this a total of 3 children all across Skyrim?

3. I desperately want to help ones like little Sophie (Windhelm) and Lucia (Whiterun) both of whom are in dire need of a safe home. I'm definitely taking Sophie off the icy streets of Windhelm. But I'm torn between rescuing Lucia, Aleson (at the mine in Dawnstar), Blaise (Katla farm stable boy), and the other orphans in Riften.

I'm wondering if it's possible to adopt Lucia and send her to Breezehome, then adopt Sophie and send her to HH with one other orphan from Riften?

Why Beth why? Why couldn't you have made it so that all the vanilla homes had the upgrade option for children bedrooms? So we could get the poor orphans off the streets?

I really hate the fact we're being limited to a max 2-3 adoptions at the orphanage and around Skyrim. But at least the Riften Orphans have a place to live in a warmer climate. So I don't feel too bad in not selecting one of those kids. Blaise & Aleson also have some degree of support. But little Sophie and Lucia being abandoned to survive on their own really bothers me.

I'm really hoping that if the Adoption mod ever gets updated, it will address and rectify this. It's either that, or we get a mod which allows the Dovahkin to move each of the children into vanilla homes in the holds, where the designated Housecarl can care for them. For the kids who were abandoned, have the Dovahkin track down their living relatives. If the relatives refuse to take them back, then execute them and send the kids to live in one of the player's homes.

Just seeing the poor kids I can't adopt left begging for a living is really going to be torture.

You can definitely only have 2 max. It stinks I know, but that's it. You can have any of your vanilla homes retrofiited with room for the kids, not just Breezhome. With your Windhelm and Solitude houses you get 2 new rooms, but the others will convert spaces. Your kids and spouse have to all be in the same place, it won't let you separate them. You can move the family to any house set up for kids, but they all have to stay together.

I know how you feel about trying to figure out which ones to adopt! At the least, the kids in the orphanage have a roof over their heads and are protected. At least, that's the way I have to look at it.

There is another thread in the Hearthfire General Discussion that tells about the kids rooms in each vanilla house, you should check that.

Now it's really going to be hard to decide to decide who to adopt!! A snippet of dialog that I hadn't heard before really got to me. I really was kind of planning to adopt 2 boys this time, (have Lucia and Blaise) but my new character was walking into the Bannered Mare after a long day of hunting, and little Lucia (who I have been giving a gold to every time I see her) was coming out. She said "you're the best, would you be my Mommy?" It was heart-wrenching almost, and it's a game! Good grief.....

That's why I intend to use the Parallel Hero Paradigm. It allows me to effectively adopt them all. Or mostof them anyway.

oh you haven't even got to the best part of the delema.... While the children in the orphanage will be well loved and cared for weather you adopt them or not (provoded ofcourse you're willing to comit murder to make sure of it) There is atleast one child in every major hold in desperate need of adoption. Poor little starving raggamuffins working their little fingers to the bone just for something so simple as a warm place to sleep at night. some don't even get that. honestly it's as bad as those old comercials were they'd show off the poor starving kids in some third world county before asking for a donation that amounts to a cup of coffee. And at best, you can only save two of them.

This has been my greatest angst every time I go to Whiterun. I initially intended to adopt Sophie and Francois at the Orphanage so I could have a boy and girl. But there are other orphans around Skyrim at a far worse plight than Francois and the other children at the Orphanage. At least the Orphanage kids have a roof over their heads, have a caring advlt to watch over them, and live in a fairly temperate climate.

But abandoned ones like Blaise, Alesor, and even more hapless little waifs like Sophie and Lucia tear at my giant toe eating, DB and TG master Dovahkin's heartstrings every time he sees them.

So instead of settling on a balanced dynasty with a boy/girl combo, he's decided to adopt Sophie and Lucia. I think this is the best choice given their former economic situation.

My Dovakin is still building HH and when it's completed, I'll consider relocating the family there. In the meanwhile, he upgraded Proudspire with the children's bedrooms. Then he moved his two precious little princesses within the safety of the hold city's walls. The best part is they're now getting along just fine with their new mom Mjoll the Lioness.

So far, Mjoll has not only made an excellent wife and traveling companion, but an even more awesome mother when it comes to guarding her lion cubs. So I don't have any worries about their safety once HH is complete. Giants, vampires, bandits etc. will choose to quit life than face the combined wrath of the Dovahkin, Mjoll, Karliah and DB acolytes (followers), Valdimar (housecarl), Adelaisa Vendicci (steward), Meeko, Vigilance--and when I get Dawnguard--Bran (or sceolang) and a hellhound (Gormr or CuSith)

Living in HH will get even better with Dawnguard when my Dovahkin finally becomes a Vampire Lord

My Dovahkin really dotes upon his 2 little princesses and I fear he'll end up really spoiling them. They don't have to do chores around the house when he's home. Besides their monthly 1,000 septim allowance, he's also also going to get them the most expensive toys, finest enchanted clothing and weapons (thinking of getting them daedric infused daggers here). And that's on top of the most expensive trinkets and gifts he finds in his adventuring around Skyrim.

If you really want to be anolytical about it, you factor in the kids' respective neediness with their feelings in the matter.

Lucia, in my opinion, is the neediest, since she is homeless and reduced to begging
Sofie and Blaise at least have jobs after a fashion, which puts them lower on the neediness scale, but still vulnerable because they have no known shelter.
Alesan has employment and shelter, in the inn. So he's kind of in the middle.
Aventus (who's not adoptable but is included because he should be) has shelter, but no one looking out for him, which puts him in the mid-range as well.
Runa has food, shelter, and care. Still, she gets treated unfairly because she's the only girl, which puts her higher on the scale than the other Honorhall kids.
And the Honorhall boys, once Constance is in charge, are at the bottom.

Feelings are far simpler:
Runa will beg you to adopt her even if you're a Khajiit vampire lord assassin, so obviously she's at the top of the range.
Lucia (reportedly) asks you to be her parent if you give her coins, putting her below Runa, but high.
Francois tells you to pick one of the others. He's alone at the bottom.
The others seem pretty similar, in the middle.

Factoring in the two, I'd say Lucia wins in a walk, with plenty of candidates for second. But it does break your heart that you can't help them all. That's why, as an RPer, I've developed a way to work around the rules.

I found where Lucia sleeps at night......outside behind the Bannered Mare in a corner on the ground!

I felt so sorry for Lucia and decided she would be the first I would adopt (I had talked to some of the others and saw they at least had someone looking out for them). I was going to go for a boy and girl but, when I visited Darkwater Crossing, two dragons attacked and left Hrefna orphaned. I felt responsible for her fate so adopted her too.

Yeah that was pretty much my rationale for taking Lucia and Sophie. Are you using another mod besides the previous Adoption mod? If so, which is it and is it on Steam/Nexus etc. I'm really hoping a modder comes up with something similar to the Adoption mod which lets us rescue more kids though. So we could at least adopt up to 4 and I could go get Alesan and Blaise.

She sometimes sleeps on the bench in that central area across from that mad wizard Gandalf wanabee. Maybe sometimes the poor thing opts for refuge from all that shouting. I realize the Jarl needs to be preoccupied with greater things given the dragons and civil war. But I still can't comprehend how he could so callously allow such such suffering and poverty to exist in his city. Right there on his door step.

I stumbled across Sophie in one of my Nord's drunken binges in the tavern. I 've got the Get Drunk mod which has some really funny animation effects. Frostfall and Imp's IMCN mods make things even more interesting with the way they're designed to screw with your body temperature when you're outdoors in cold weather. My Dovahkin decided to get roaring drunk in the tavern. Then he went outdoors to have some fun with a bit of Nord guard bowling (aka stumbling around town into guards and trying to knock them over).

He was having a total blast drinking and lurching around town in the wee hours of the morning. Then--with his vision completely compromised--he finally decided to try the novelty of a mead break sitting down. So then he promptly tried to do this on a bench in a small, poorly lit courtyard. And nearly squashed poor Sophie in the process

Since he hadn't been wearing any fur armor, the Frostfall and Drunk mods had reduced his body temperature dangerously below the 50% mark in his health stats. So within another hour or so, my Dovahkin would've been comatose, frozen stiff, and completed the process of freezing to death. That's when the realization of Sophie's dire situation finally hit home in his mead sodden mind. The poor little thing had been sleeping on that iceberg of a bench in a blizzard in sub zero freezing weather.

She didn't have to ask twice. He caved in and adopted her on the spot. Several fast travel hours later that same day, she was in the warm safety of her own room in Proudspire. Now she's got a new sister and a whole bunch of kids to play with in Solitude.

Arg! So as my "real me" character, when she approached me (in the Bannered Mare, where I assumed she could sleep by the fire) I had to say how I was sorry, my family is waiting for me back in another universe and it would only be worse for her later when I left to go back to them. But if I had seen that...

Yeah....so much for adopting 2 boys plan. It's pitiful, how can I not adopt her again?!

Blasted devs did it on purpose!

QUOTE: Are you using another mod besides the previous Adoption mod? If so, which is it and is it on Steam/Nexus etc.

I'm using a PS3, so no mods, and no HF as of yet. The Parallel Hero Paradigm is a RP tactic. It essentially states that all your characters lead parallel lives, as long as they choose different houses, spouses, etc. So as an example, suppose I had three active characters.
My Bosmer Guildmaster marries Iona and lives in Riften. They adopt Runa and Samuel.
My Nord Dragonborn marries Jordis and lives in Solitude. They adopt Blaise and Sophie.
And my Redguard Harbinger stays single and builds a house in the Pale. He takes pity on Lucia and gives her a home.
In essence, I have adopted 5 kids. And since each character identifies with a different questline, I just presume that they all exist. It works rather well.

Ahhhh.

*enlightenment*

I'm too linear to think that big. I'm still using the same toon I had since the game came out last year, and so have grown very attached to him!

for the illumination