WARNING SPOILERS BELOW



So was anyone else sorely disappointed by these two? What I loved about the dark brother hood was all the horror/supernatural elements the whole night mother stuff brought on. If this one no longer believes, then it gets introduced and you get to bring them back to those ways thats fine, but for godsakes don't stop the quest line there! now theres just a series of seemingly unending assassinations she gives you. Also, wtf is up with everyone discovering you even if your hidden?! Maybe beth did this to avoid the retardation of being able to walk away from a kill, with the kill weapon still out, after attacking right by everyone and looting the body, but its [censored] if I'm an assassin and get automatically spotted for every major kill! If I'm hidden when I fire my arrow for actually kill the person no one should become hostile and I shouldn't get a bounty! That said, why the hell is the thieves guild made primarily of dungeons?! What happened to all the awesome heists and what not from oblivion! And the same with the BH assassinations! If I wanted to go dungeon crawling I'd to companion quests! Anyone remember the awesome BH quest from oblivion where you had to kill the guy by sabotaging a trophy on his wall to make it look like an accident, or the other missions that had all the requirements for both guilds (namely not getting caught). At the very least the end of the BH quest line should re-introduce and explain the 5 tenants for those of us (like me) who don't remember them or those who don't know and make them requirements for the assassinations the night mother gives you. I seriously hope they make some DLC that expands these cuz right now they are both lame as hell! Sure the stories were good, but that means little if the missions aren't fun! I want more than meaningless dungeons and it gets irritating when almost EVERY mission becomes and excuse to use a dungeon. If they couldn't handmake so many dungeons without using them for quests they shouldn't have made so many to begin with. I'd rather have cool quests that don't all boil down to dungeon crawling and oblivions cookie cutter dungeons than be forced to constantly go to them for even assassination missions! No maybe I'm under-thinking this. maybe they had to use dungeons because the towns are smaller and skyrim less populated than cyrodill (SP?), but I still didn't like it. What does everyone else think? Should they expand them in DLC?

Talk to Vex and Delphine for heists.

FFS, put spoilers in the spoilers section, that is why it exists.

I'll have to disagree with you on the Dark Brotherhood quests as a whole (haven't finished the Thieves' Guild yet). I thought they used a very interesting approach, and the optional objectives for some of the quests were really fun. However, I agree that the story line ends rather aprubtly and the NPC interaction was a little lacking. I will give one thing to Skyrim though: the sheer creepiness factor of the Dark Brotherhood this time around went through the roof. There was one particular moment when I freaked, even more than in Bellamont's hideout or Applewatch farm. You know what I mean, it involves eavesdropping...

meh. I like the horror themes bethesda tends to stick in parts of their games and the DBH felt really lacking with the NM missing through most of it. I also didn't like the rather uninspiring assassinations. Oblivion had some awesome ones, but this was just "go kill so and so, no special way (aside from about two kills) and if you get caught (which seems impossible to avoid) it doesn't matter". Plus its kind of dumb that you can kill someone while hidden, yet all the guards that were sleeping get up and know what you did AND you can still plant an incriminating letter on the body-WHILE BEING ATTACKED! its just rediculous!

Wall of text horror O _ o From what I managed to get you... actually enjoyed the quests in the dark brotherhood? Even though you say the missions svcked... wha? So basically there aren't enough missions (absolutely true, bad bad) therefore the missions you did svck? What is your logic XD

AS for the game mechanics.... Yes they are unrealistic... But just like in Oblivion... and Morrowind...

I actually managed to do all the quests undetected (save for one, but this one is scripted). It took a lot of reloading, but it is doable. Tip: stealth kills with a dagger (throat slicing animation) are not detected by nearby NPCs. There's just one quest where I found it didn't work.

Sort of a side-track, but I suspect that there will be a Thieves Guild DLC in the future, especially when you consider the amount of content that is available for New Vegas. Alongside the Dark Brotherhood and Mage's Guild (or what passes for it), it's a "core" Guild in the franchise. The difference is that there are no available Followers from the Thieves Guild and no Followers anywhere that have the Lockpicking skill.

It would be an interesting twist to have a whole new quest chain that gives you the option of infiltrating the Guild and bringing it down.