Can I get Dragon Shout in Dustman's Cairn without associatin : V

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:57 am

I'm looking to get all 3 Words of Fire Breath. I've already cleared Sunderstone Gorge to get 1 Word Wall. Is it possible for me to get another from Dustman's Cairn without associating myself with The Companions? I don't like how when you join a Faction and end up not liking them, you cannot quit, so I'm not joining anyone on this playthrough.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:58 pm

Anyone?

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:06 am

Don't know, sorry.

If you can go into Dustman's Cairn, the word will still be there. The only way to know is to go see if you can get in the door.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:05 am

I'm getting ready to explore the Cairn tonight when I get home from work, I'll post what I find. I haven't joined the Companions yet, so I'll post if you can get to the Word Wall or not.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:11 pm

According to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dustman%27s_Cairn, no.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:24 pm

I've tried. You can't.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:18 am

Only if you tcl through the block in the door. In addition, this breaks the Companions questline.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:02 pm

I'm getting ready to explore the Cairn tonight when I get home from work, I'll post what I find. I haven't joined the Companions yet, so I'll post if you can get to the Word Wall or not.

Thank you, Uriel Nocturne. Please let us know how it went.

According to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dustman%27s_Cairn, no.

Thank you, Sojourner. I've actually read that before; however, I found something conflicting about it. We know for a fact that after a certain point Greybeards start giving you random Word Wall locations when asked. What will happen then if the location of that Word Wall happen to be Dustman's Cairn?

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:24 pm

There are a few other such cases as well, which is rather annoying since if you go in without the related quest being active you don't actually miss out on anything significant. You do break said quest, though, as the triggers get all hosed up and don't fire when they're supposed to.

I wish they'd taken a page from Obsidian's quest-dungeon design and only barred the door leading to the specific portion of the dungeon that is attached to a quest, since then we could still get the Words without having to join a faction that goes against the character's RP...

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:51 pm

Thank you, Sojourner. I've actually read that before; however, I found something conflicting about it. We know for a fact that after a certain point Greybeards start giving you random Word Wall locations when asked. What will happen then if the location of that Word Wall happen to be Dustman's Cairn?

There are a few other such cases as well, which is rather annoying since if you go in without the related quest being active you don't actually miss out on anything significant. You do break said quest, though, as the triggers get all hosed up and don't fire when they're supposed to.

I wish they'd taken a page from Obsidian's quest-dungeon design and only barred the door leading to the specific portion of the dungeon that is attached to a quest, since then we could still get the Words without having to join a faction that goes against the character's RP...

General Masters, do you mean when Dustman's Cairn is pointed by the Greybeards instead of The Companions, Word Wall can be reached, but The Companions Quest will break?

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:44 pm

I don't think the Greybeards can give you the locations that require another quest to enter. At least, if the programmers were sane the Greybeards (or the Letter From a Friend, for that matter) should never point you to Dustman's Cairn, Saarthal, Snow Veil Sanctum, etc. (these all require guild quests to enter, and there are more where those came from)

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:12 pm

I'm looking to get all 3 Words of Fire Breath. I've already cleared Sunderstone Gorge to get 1 Word Wall. Is it possible for me to get another from Dustman's Cairn without associating myself with The Companions? I don't like how when you join a Faction and end up not liking them, you cannot quit, so I'm not joining anyone on this playthrough.

On PC you can use TCL to navigate through physical barriers, scripted closed doors, etc...

Kind of stupid that to end some quests (Forbidden Legend), get some generic objects (one of the masks) or shouts, it's needed to join a faction.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:58 pm

General Masters, do you mean when Dustman's Cairn is pointed by the Greybeards instead of The Companions, Word Wall can be reached, but The Companions Quest will break?

No, since the whole thing will be inaccessible as the front door will be sealed until you do the quest. What I said was that I wished they had done it so that the wall would still be accessible, since that would make more sense.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:38 pm

No, since the whole thing will be inaccessible as the front door will be sealed until you do the quest. What I said was that I wished they had done it so that the wall would still be accessible, since that would make more sense.

Another Great example is Labyrinthian... you need to do the whole college quest line to get the last dragon priest mask and a shout too. In this case, I think the intention was to separate the two things initially. It's possible to enter, via a not-so-hidden door, in the final dungeon where the priest and the word wall are located. Too bad they decided to give the single most important item in the college guild questline to said dragon priest and thus they added a door that cannot be opened from the other side!

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:38 pm

I don't think the Greybeards can give you the locations that require another quest to enter. At least, if the programmers were sane the Greybeards (or the Letter From a Friend, for that matter) should never point you to Dustman's Cairn, Saarthal, Snow Veil Sanctum, etc. (these all require guild quests to enter, and there are more where those came from)

Has this happen to anyone, though? Greybeards giving out Word Wall locations that cannot be accessed?

I've tried. You can't.

Thank you, esrafael.

No, since the whole thing will be inaccessible as the front door will be sealed until you do the quest. What I said was that I wished they had done it so that the wall would still be accessible, since that would make more sense.

Thank you, General Masters.

Another Great example is Labyrinthian... you need to do the whole college quest line to get the last dragon priest mask and a shout too. In this case, I think the intention was to separate the two things initially. It's possible to enter, via a not-so-hidden door, in the final dungeon where the priest and the word wall are located. Too bad they decided to give the single most important item in the college guild questline to said dragon priest and thus they added a door that cannot be opened from the other side!

Thank you, msxyz.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:39 pm

I guess I'm going to have to resort to doing the glitch with Parodontax to get the last 2 Words of Fire Breath then. It still works, right?

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:59 pm

I don't think you can, sorry.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:48 pm

I'm getting ready to explore the Cairn tonight when I get home from work, I'll post what I find. I haven't joined the Companions yet, so I'll post if you can get to the Word Wall or not.

Update: That's a negative, Ghost Rider. It is not possible to get to the Word Wall without joining the (stupid) Companions. I tried to find a way past the blockage/door/gate/any-portal-I-could-find, and it isn't possible at all. The Companions are the only way the game will let you past and onward to the area with the Wall.

And that svcks... personally, I'm not a fan of the Companions. But it is what it is, and that is my update.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:43 pm

Update: That's a negative, Ghost Rider. It is not possible to get to the Word Wall without joining the (stupid) Companions. I tried to find a way past the blockage/door/gate/any-portal-I-could-find, and it isn't possible at all. The Companions are the only way the game will let you past and onward to the area with the Wall.

And that svcks... personally, I'm not a fan of the Companions. But it is what it is, and that is my update.

Thank you, Uriel Nocturne. There is actually a way to get the last 2 Words of Fire Breath from Parodontax during main quest The Throat of the World. But we risk a later chance where Greybeards could give us Word Wall location to this Cave which, obviously, is no longer needed or work. Still need more information on this potential bug, though.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:51 am

I don't think the Greybeards can give you the locations that require another quest to enter. At least, if the programmers were sane the Greybeards (or the Letter From a Friend, for that matter) should never point you to Dustman's Cairn, Saarthal, Snow Veil Sanctum, etc. (these all require guild quests to enter, and there are more where those came from)

From what I've seen, dragon and word wall locations given to you by the Greybeards / Blades appear to be pulled randomly from a list that does NOT check for previously visited locations or inaccessible ones.

I find the Greybeards redundant, anyway, since the game has another mechanic in place to point you to Word Walls.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Update: That's a negative, Ghost Rider. It is not possible to get to the Word Wall without joining the (stupid) Companions. I tried to find a way past the blockage/door/gate/any-portal-I-could-find, and it isn't possible at all. The Companions are the only way the game will let you past and onward to the area with the Wall.

And that svcks... personally, I'm not a fan of the Companions. But it is what it is, and that is my update.

By not joining the mage guild you'll miss the wall in Saarthal and in Labyrintian, not to mention a dragon mask and the last piece of Gauldur's amulet.
By not joing the companions you'll miss one wall in Dustman Cairn. I don't remember if there's a dragon wall also in the tomb of Ysgamor (another area inaccessible without joinin the companion)
By not joining the Thieves guild you'll miss one dragon wall in Snow Veil Sanctum.

All these locations can be visited (on PC) via console tricks. If you limit yourself to learning words of power it won't break the quests should you decide to join one of the guilds at a later time.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:24 pm

I've heard that when you meet Paarthurnax and he teaches you one word of the Fire Breath shout, if you use a Dragon Soul to learn it prior to him bestowing the knowledge upon you (It should be in your spell book a few seconds before he gives you the knowledge free of charge), you can gain two words of the shout. I'm not entirely sure you will be able to get to the other word of Power without joining the Companions. Hope that helps if you can't get it any other way, it hasn't been patched as far as I know.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:20 am

I've heard that when you meet Paarthurnax and he teaches you one word of the Fire Breath shout, if you use a Dragon Soul to learn it prior to him bestowing the knowledge upon you (It should be in your spell book a few seconds before he gives you the knowledge free of charge), you can gain two words of the shout. I'm not entirely sure you will be able to get to the other word of Power without joining the Companions. Hope that helps if you can't get it any other way, it hasn't been patched as far as I know.

I'll definitely try that out. Thank you, Bluntsk.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:49 pm

it is a big no.

there is a door that can only be opened from the other side.

it is in the companions questline that some enemies open it to attack you.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:47 pm

How about the last "marked for death" in the brotherhood sanctum. Is it possible to get that one without joining?