thanks in advance for the answer. i have a feeling its not possible but i want to know for sure before i walk all the way there.

No.

For some reason you're forced to join the dawnguard first...even as a vampire.

No you must go to Dawnguard, choices are not allowed.

that svcks

No

Well to me I don't think harkon would turn you if you just go to the castle I mean the gate guard would not let you in firstly plus what reason would harkon have to turn you? To me he would just kill you and chuck you off the bridge if you got past the gate guard.

They easily could have written in a different direction or reason for you being able to get in. Regardless it makes much less sense that a group of veteran vampire hunters dont kill on sight when you try to join.

Unfortunately no.

So what actually happens if you swim over? Does the gate guard attack? Tell you off? (I assume the door is key-locked). Can you even swim over?

I agree. Beths got lazy, or were rushed to push out the DLC.

Besides, if I were a Vampire lord and some Dawnguard member came up with my daughter, I wouldn't give him a gift. I'd turn him into a human Big Mac. Then take the damn Elder Scroll and continue on with my business. There's too many un-realistic concecpts to the game. But on the other hand...

It's just a game.

Or logic.

No, they will not open the gate.

Wouldn't have been hard. You hear about an old castle/vampire castle. You go there, they let you in, Harkon sends you to go help retrieve his daughter.

I actually tried that earlier today. The gate guard was behind a giant steel gate. and pretty much told me to go [censored] myself.

I was hoping if you were already a thin-blood you could get in early.

Logically a secretive order of vampires shouldn't just take any yahoo off the street.

But they'll take a vampire hunter stupid enough to waltz in with the leader's daughter? And they seem fine with letting random npcs join as "spies" why not you? Here's an easy way to make it make sense:

Vampire hear's about the castle, finds it thinking he'll get in. Volkihar cast a spell on you that makes you black out. Wake up in torture room being interrogated. You say you want to join. They laugh and send you on some suicide mission. You come back and they're impressed. The story goes on from there.

OR

Remember when you go on the quests to turn people into vamp spies? If you ask the questgiver why this perspn was chosen, he'll say it has to do with their blood and the "stars". So basically they think some people are born worthy of joining? Maybe they find out you're on this spiritual list?

See? I made two mediocre solutions in less than 5 minutes. I'm sure the devs could have though of a better one in the time they had.

I like this.

This. I understand people complaining about the "lack of choice", but it's not like it's an entirely unimaginable order of events. Remember that Serana is crucial to Harkon's plan, so he's not going to kill you on sight. Remember also that vampires don't all just get along with each other, so it's unlikely that a vampire who thinks particularly highly of himself, trying to carry out an uber-plan for world domination, would just let you in if you were a vampire or not.

I'm sure those reasons can all be contested - Psychotrip's ideas are pretty good - but I don't really see the huge problem here. You only have to do one quest for the DG if you take the other side, after all. I can think of other areas in Skyrim where alternate routes would be more useful.

It'd be funny if it weren't so true.


They don't have to. You can approach them, they can be overall aggressive and hostile, then you could say "I'd like to join your group." They laugh at you for being a mix vampire and thinking you can hang with them, then half-jokingly, Harkon tells you to go find his daughter and he'll consider it. The option should only be available if you already have normal vampirism.

Sure it's only one quest, but it's an rp issue. This is a roleplaying game still right? I could understand if it would take a massive effort on bethesda's part to make an alternate opening, but as I explained, it wouldn't. As it stands now, every vampire plauer is forced to join a group of vampire hunters, who are apperently too incompetant to know a vampire when they see one, and then get to join the vampires even though you're apperently a self-loathing vampire...? Sure there are ways to make this make sense, but it's much simpler to just give us the option of joining them outright.

What if you're already a vampire? Can you even join the Dawnguard to start the quest to lead up to getting into the castle?