I recently made a post in http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1400533-just-another-little-way-to-play/page__st__30__gopid__21334024#entry21334024 about not playing with certain things, such as the music and the heads up display. During it, I at first thought to expound on why I've never used the clairvoyance spell. I quickly realized as I attempted to write it out that it was it's own subject, and as it only tangentially related to the thread, decided it deserved it's own.

In the other thread, I invoked the concept that various elements of a game are used to represent qualities or abilities of the character, world, creatures, and NPCs. This was necessary to distinguish the manner in which the compass with its quest arrows, map icons, and red dots differed from other visual elements like the three attribute bars and the eye reticule.

Clearly we know that the character in the world of Skyrim is not actually looking over their head and watching red dots to know where the enemies behind a rock or down a hallway they can't see around are. Yet in classifying the nature of this distinction, it became obvious that some knowledge given the player through such elements IS actually available legitimately to the character by in game means. There is a detect life spell for example. But clairvoyance being the obvious corresponant for information about a quest, I had to consider why I felt that it differs from something like the detect life spell.

It seems to me that a spell power to instantly have perfect knowledge of where any "objective" of a quest, no matter how trivial or life endingly vital, no matter how broad or narrow, basically no matter what it may be, can be found is too broad and sweepingly general, and therefore too powerful for a spell available to anyone who can cast it. This seems like the kind of power only a psijic, a daedric lord, or an aedra would possess. That's when I understood. It's subtle, but it has to do with the nature of quests.

What does a quest represent? Well to the player, it is a set of predetermined objectives, of which there are only so many (even if there is a radiant story thing making any number of others, all are drawn from a finite set of possible parts). To the character in the world of Skyrim, a quest is also a set of objectives, but they may not be predetermined and there is definitely no "limit" on how many or what type they may be.

It is this general nature of the knowledge the spell purports to represent I think that seals the deal on clairvoyance being way too powerful, at least as it is. For the character, it is perfectly valid at any point, even after first escaping Helgen, to simply decide to go on a "quest" for the answer to the entire dragon problem. If clairvoyance can lead you to any objective whatsoever, then the "magic of the spell" should immediately point them straight to the final answer.

They could go in search of the meaning of life, or a source of limitless gold, or world peace, and this simple little novice illusion spell will send them straight to it. Saying, but no such quests exist in the game is not a refutation of the spell's overly general and all powerful nature, because that is only a consequence of limitations of the media (the game console or computer) that is representing the game world, not the spell itself.

I mean, imagine if you had this power in the real world in a way that you could call upon at any time with nothing but pauses to rest and recuperate between attempts. What could you NOT do? It's almost a wish as it stands. Anyone who has it should with time and patience be able to effectively become a god.

Understand this is certainly not a call for removal of the spell. I am a staunch advocate of options, and ironically, unlike the compass, this spell is something I can choose to not ever learn and pretend doesn't exist at all. What do you think? Is it too powerful? Is it fine? Why or why not? Could it use limitations, such as a chance to fail outright, or maybe a chance of misleading that gets less and less as you acquire greater skill? Or ought it have been some kind of greater power reward from a dangerous quest? What might it be instead?

I think it's fine. However, I get frustrated by it. It leads me to places I don't want to go, especially during the quest Pieces of the Past.

I've never used it myself. Quest markers are enough guidance for me.

I've only used Clairvoyance a handful of times, mostly when RPing and my character is trying to remember how to get back somewhere. For that purpose, I tend to cast magelight at the entrance, to act as the signal Clairvoyance picked up on and is leading me too.

.... so much info .... my eyes hurt

I don't find it to be godlike in any way. Also why would we assume that the conventional powers of a god in our world would be conceived as godlike in a world like Tamriel?

Also do you have any sources of clairvoyancy being linked to any deities in real life or even Tamriel. Because as far as I know only scammers and novices do it in the real world and as far as Tamriel is concerned, I have no idea. I think the spell is categorized correctly, my mother is always going on about how she just knows something is about to happen, or she feels some supernatural vibe here and there and by no means is she a masterful magician. I could be wrong but I highly doubt it.

So little contribution my brain hurts. Why would you even bother posting that reply? If you don't have anything interesting to say you might as well keep your irrelevant and curtly comments to yourself.

I don't think its powerful. I use it as a last resort and well I find clairvoyance to be more of an annoyance rather than helpful.

That is certainly a possible reaction to it, too invoke role-play to fit it into the character's story. I can see treating it as some kind of blessing from praying to Talos for guidance in a moment of confusion.

In Oblivion, I came to a similar conclusion that the chameleon spell was something that's ultimate final power at 100% was game breakingly overpowered, and set a limit on it myself that I observed, imagining the effect's nature to be something like acceleration to the speed of light. The closer you get, the harder and harder it becomes to move any faster, and thus diminishing returns would lead to some kind of "practical limit" for standard magic users. A form of roleplay adding an explanation for my own limiting of its use.

Was it really necessary to add a spell with the compass always available for free? I don't know, it just seems to me like adding a "duplication spell" to the school of alteration, or conjuration I guess since that would be creating something new. All of the sudden, an ability that otherwise might be described as a glitch or as metagame knowledge (such as could be gained from a guide or wiki) is thrown in as a spell and because of that it's supposed to have legitimacy? Why not a level temporarily up ten levels, with perks for a time spell? Am I making sense?

Nightshade Assassin, I feel you have cast a number of pearls before some swine here, old bean.

While the nature of the spell can certainy be very powerful if used right, I believe the spell is more focus on task for others then simple wealth and knowledge.

I have yet to enhance it.

I don't even use it, but you certainly bring up an interesting point with the whole "it would lead to the final answer" thing, but I guess we assume the spell has a limited scope that can take you as far as a lever to open a gate, or a certain object you're looking for, and can only show you how to achieve short term goals.

I've only used it on one of my latest play throughs. Short of it is, I created a character that I felt fit the play style of a Paladin and after getting a certain item from Meridia and realizing she has a hatered for the undead I decided my character would serve her. Clairvoyance seemed a good fit for this character, he gets lost, he asks Meridia for guidance. He trys to be self sufficient and not use it much, after all constantly bugging the Daedra is probably a bad idea. So far at 17th level I think I've used it 3 times.

Yay, when I think about it, I think that I have this spell but once, at the exact the same place as the preview demo, to see if it behaves like the demo, then I forgot all about that, and never used it since, by any of my characters.

When I get the time to mod it into what I would like better, I will use it a lot more, but until then, well...

Well, or it's just Jack Sparrow's magic compass that leads him to whatever he (currently) most desires.


Personally, I just think it's a gameplay effect. Nothing more, nothing less. Something for the player, just like the overly-detailed 3D map (which, clearly, the character isn't seeing), the inventory menus (which have plenty of info the character wouldn't have), or the game menus.

(I've never used it, I don't see the need.)

Yeah, back in Oblivion the inventory screen was modelled after the characters journal. The map actually looked like a map, it couldn't zoom or show you things from various angles. I can picture a character looking at that.

But why wouldnt a character know what's in their inventory? Surely they'd know what they're carrying, what spells/shouts they can use, and what is affecting them at any given moment.

Aside from being somewhat broken (technical issues), I'll say this.

There's similar ideas in "real" magic (i.e. Wicca, Thelema, Witchcraft, traditional Druid rites and the such), that lead you to lost things or things you are looking for or the solution to various problems. I'd imagine in this case that the explanation for how those abilities wouldn't enable someone to, say, rule the world in a few days, apply also to the world of Nirn.

First, let's examine one of your potential scenarios, the dragon problem. Let's say the Dragonborn does use clairvoyance seeking this solution. However, the way to get there cannot be reached by foot, only by air, and Clairvoyance only works by foot. So how do you get there by foot? So right there, it's led you exactly the same way it would have if you'd simply looked for each following objective in your quests.

Let's take a more difficult scenario to solve, that of Septimus Signus. He searches for the Heart of Lorkhan, and trusts Hermora that it is in the Dwemer lockbox. If he uses Clairvoyance to locate the Heart, where will it lead him?


And that's assuming that Hermora or another god (even, since we're already talking metagame by assuming the player can give herself "quests" to follow, the Godhead itself) isn't the operator behind where the spell leads you, meaning that they could bend you to their will if you follow it... Which brings me to another interesting point, the absolute reverse of your own.

In the Fable series past the first installment, there is a glittery trail of pixie farts or something leading you to wherever your current objective is, and you can change that objective. It's basically clairvoyance! More importantly, it discourages exploration of the thin, two-dimensional world that was built to be railroaded by guiding you down that railroad and cleverly tricking even the player into thinking she is exerting some kind of free choice- She could go down any of these exciting side-paths, but she chooses to keep headed along the pixie fart undie tracks tread along the road to get to the next story point, exerting virtually no free will except in what clothing she slaps on her player character, pretty much actually the star in a really poorly-animated and cheesy movie about the clashing forces of good and evil or a kid with a dead dog or something, I don't even remember. I think there's a music box and your sister from the first game is revealed to be the mentour who has been guiding you or something.

When I first saw the Clairvoyance spell, my thought process was this exactly: "Oh, its the pixie fart trail from Fable, except they've replaced the farting pixies with farting Ice Wraiths. I guess it's a bad climate for overbeaned pixies, after all. Probably to attract Lionhead's playerbase, since they've taken obvious steps to make Skyrim appeal to people that would not normally play an RPG like the Elder Scrolls." And just like that glittertrail blazing down the road, all the spell shows you is the path of least resistance (barring enemies) to your nearest goal. All following it does is "willingly" desert your free will and trust an algorithm to just take you there; You might as well fast travel if possible instead, you won't be missing much exploration. Just railroading for the mysterious god living in your CPU and executing those algorithms to tell you how to follow a series of predetermined train stops on the way to Alduin Central.

And you know who comes right out and tells you that you have no free will, only the illusion of it? Pretty much every Daedra you ever talk back to ever. Think about who is a god and who is the slave the next time you fire up that Clairvoyance.