It's not often a video game makes me think of the morality of my decisions, or gets me contemplating my decision for days.


So here's my dilemma.


I've sided with the BoS early in the game. Met Paladin Danse while exploring outside Concord. Found him at the Police Station and help him out. He had a very loyal quality to him. Militaristic. Something I felt my character would side with given his pre-war background.


Danse is a good man I thought. Then I saw the Prydwen arrive. And man I had to see what was up. Since being invited aboard I've been with the BoS. Doing every mission with them. Got to the Institute with their help as I felt they were the only force that technologically could do it.


(Warning Major Spoilers)




Then I got the news that Paladin Danse was a synth. I thought this couldn't be, this has to be a mistake, and that the Brotherhood will listen to reason. Well they did, in a way. Arthur made Danse a outcast with some smooth talking from me. But the conversion left a bad taste in my mouth.


How could BoS just turn their backs on one of their most faithful like that? And that maybe I've sided with the bad guys.


But maybe not. Super Mutants and the Institute need to be stopped. Ghouls and Synths are debatable. Synths are just following orders from the Institute, enslaved have you. And Ghouls are just a result of this new world. I get they are feaks, but some of them are good people.


Alas, this leads me to this question: Minutemen or Brotherhood for end-game? What's your thoughts?


My confusion lies in the faction I have to wipe out. If I go with BoS the Minutemen are allies. And if Minutemen then Railroad are allies, but attack the Brotherhood. And their are members of BoS that I really like, including Danse.


(Sorry if this wasn't the most coherent post. I'm just so conflicted )

I think you are a person capible of making decisions for yourself, just hear out all factions and decide who you support the most.

By the way the minute men keep the BoS and railroad alive and only kill the institute

Don't ask these forums who you should side with. Most people around here have their opinions on who is right. Some feel very strongly about their opinions. Many of them are also full of complete BS to justify their opinions. So go make your own choice based on what you see and read in game.

I am in the same dilemma as you. Danse really grew on me, especially after I romanced him, though I don't know how I feel about the BoS as a whole, especially Maxson being such a jerk. That being said, I don't want to side against the BoS, and therefore p!ss Danse off (synth/outcast or not, he still feels loyalty to the faction that gave him a reason to make a difference in the world). I think I will go with the MM and use the method that keeps both BoS and RR alive. On another character I may go full BoS in the end.

Well, I know what you mean! I'm near the end, but I don't want it to end.

I'm working with the Brotherhood, because I was very taken by Danse as well, who is now Catherine's new hubby. So, she has been working with the Railroad, but thinks they are a bit narrow-minded, just like the Brotherhood, but are not entirely bad, more like mis-directed.

Enter the Minutemen

They are working for the greater good of the "little", every-day people that are just trying to survive in the Wasteland. Instead of just surviving, we are helping them to actually live and even thrive in the hostile environment.

They have honor and integrity (like Danse, who btw. always likes it, when Cat helps a settlement). They believe in the power of the regular people and they accept all sorts of settlers. So, I will make it so that I am kicked out of the Institute (still in good standing with them right now) and then I will end them with the help of the Minutemen. I will still be on good terms with the RR and the BoS.

The fact that so many are conflicted over faction alliegence is one of the games strong points.


I just wish there were more dialogue options to explore he ethical complexities with each faction head.

Brotherhood of Steel. They fight Feral Ghouls (non-Ferals are safe), Super Mutants, and Institute Synths.


While I can sympathize with the Railroad, sentient Synths shouldn't exist at all. That's the Institute's bad. However if destroying the few that exists now ends the debate rather than prolonging it until it becomes something worse (technological singularity) then so be it.


And Maxson isn't so much a jerk as he is a young and charismatic leader under an unimaginable amount of pressure. He has to balance Lyon's ideals with the Outcasts' original mission which is no easy task if your aim is to project strength to allies and enemies alike. It's why I can understand his uncompromising attitude. He also knows when to let things slide (Virgil and Danse).


The only true question mark is what's become of the Capital Wasteland in the last decade and what are the Brotherhood of Steel's long term goals for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Institute is the best for restoration of human society.

BoS is best for maintaining current society.

Minutemen is the good option that allows you to keep all the other options alive.

RR is the evil chaos option if you want to destroy the society.

I like the Institute, but ends up choosing BoS since my main file has Danse as the LI. The second file I choose the Institute.

I feel the endgame faction largely depends on what the character is meant to be about (all my opinion)

• I character with high intelligence would likely be leaning for institute from the start. They are science-y characters, so it is kind of logical.


• A stand up and fight/guns blazing type would probably feel more at home with the BoS, due to all the tech and defensive power armor they have.


• RR fits best with the subterfuge/stealth characters thanks to the Deliverer and Ballistic weave


• MM are whatever you want.

In the end, it is all based on what the morals and judgments of the Player and their Sole survivor are. These are just good baselines.

It's no where near so cut and dry. My intelligent sciencey prewar character took a look at the Institute and went, "You guys are unethical and amoral. I'm going to destroy you."

I had pretty much your exact same dilemma and played the same character with both endings. I wasn't fully satisfied with either, but after much cognitive dissonance and mental angst, I think I find the Brotherhood ending more morally credible and having more potential for long term stability.


Here's the thing with the Minutemen. You *are* the Minutemen. The instant you are gone, there is little to suggest it won't be Quincy all over again. Forming effective governments is hard. In 200 years only the NCR has managed anything like success (beyond a small city level) and then only recently. Also, conflict between the Railroad and the Brotherhood is pretty much inevitable. The Minutemen ending doesn't broker a peace between them. It just momentarily avoids a direct confrontation. I'd rather end it now rather than string it along and have another big battle later while the Commonwealth is still trying to recover from the Institute.

It's mostly just because of Danse. Without him, most people would be gung-ho for one faction or another.

You do realize that I put in that was based on morals and judgments, right? That list was without all that, without the biases, morals, judgments, etc.

What you are posting is not total baseline, but what YOUR character felt, which was basically just about you and bias.

Pretty much this.

The synths are being held as slaves.

That the BoS want to set the world on fire,

and the Institute want to corrupt it,

both with rigid world views, makes supporting then untenable.

Though destroying them is painful for the lives that are lost, what choice is there?

I keep the main quest trigger choices in suspension until I have literally done everything else...

*Sigh* Again, it was just based on the character builds/concepts themselves, no morals, judgments, biases, any other characterization stuff other than perks/SPECIAL build. A soldier, just a run and gun going around shooting would have no reason to join in institute without explanation. they fit best with the BoS with just being run and gun, and no other thing to describe them.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Lets just say I am very happy being the Director. The Institute regularly gives me 4 Quests (radiant) and Preston gives me two.

Level 85, and they are still sending me to spots I have never seen before.

Also, get a ton of Help the Synth Checkpoint Quests while doing the Radiants.

Expect to stay busy until the first DLC comes out. And yes, I still have Perks I want to get.

I really like Danse and Haylen, and also have a soft spot for Cade, Teagan and Quinlan. Most of the BoS top brass come across as very likeable people (ok, Haylen is quite low down on the food chain, but she's really, really nice) other than Kells and Maxson, and even then it's more of a military coldness rather than a malicious or deluded antagonism. However, I find it difficult to wipe out the Railroad (ok, Tom and Carrington are annoying, but the rest are quite likeable, and you have to admire their resilience and ability to make the best of what little they have) which is pretty much part of the BoS ending, and vice versa the Railroad ending destroys the Brotherhood and brings the Prydwen crashing down to earth in flames. I think if I played the game without ever joining the Brotherhood and going to Cambridge station and speaking to Danse and Haylen I might be more willing to take the Railroad option, and similarly if I had never followed the Freedom Trail and met Desdemona and Deacon I couldn't really care less who those people hiding beneath the church were. My guess is if you join both factions and end up liking them both then the Minutemen ending is probably the only option you can take.

I've yet to progress far enough to actually meet people from the Institute, but my guess is if that I ran quests for them I'd probably like a few of them and have the same dilemma. If you want to play the BoS ending then you should skip the Railroad quests completely, and you should skip the BoS quests completely if you want to finish with the Railroad - you'll feel better. Of course, you miss out on a lot of goodies - Deacon and Danse have really nice Companion perks, and Ballistic Weave really is a nice skill to have. Thankfully Ballistic Weave and Deacon's perk are available really early on in the RR quests (you just need to complete the first mission and some side quests, iirc) but that's enough for you to get to know the people there. Danse's perk, on the other hand, takes you quite deep into the BoS missions.

Never liked the brotherhood, the Railroad suited my ideals and I was sure the institute would get it...but it all changed when I realised the potential and was given leadership. I handled things in the best way I could and tried to play the institute as friendly, which it almost lets you do, but my ideas of reconciling with the Railroad couldn't be, much to my regret.

I can give you my personal opinion of who to side with, but my views on what's best for the future of the Commonwealth and my personal perspectives on the morality and ethics of the various factions are going to differ from your own. Some people will tell you that should side with the Institute because they offer the greatest hope for the future, and are the most moral and ethical faction. I don't agree with this and I've had some very in depth discussions on here and elsewhere about this. It's a decision that you should make for yourself according to what you've seen of each faction. It IS a hard decision to make. But it's a decision that doesn't have an objective correct answer.

I personally find it difficult to imagine many real people agreeing to work for an organization that murdered someone they loved, regardless of their ideals, so the Institute is right out for me. Besides, anybody can justify their actions by some great future goal. Talk is cheap. I judge the factions by what they've done for the world in the here and now. The Minutemen have the least obvious dark side, so I'm probably going to stick with them and try to minimize my conflict with the Brotherhood and Railroad.

For once I'm in complete agreement with Mitheledh. The last thing you should do is let these forum Jockies push you around into making some nonsensical "right/wrong decision". Go with what you believe in.


If you're having trouble, let me simplify it for you. No BS arguments. No "X is better for the commonwealth than Y" crap.

• Do you like science and robots? Do you think these can be used to better mankind, even if you have to break a few eggs in the process? Do you think that family runs thicker than ideology? Do you like having an instant fast travel point? Do you run Homemaker mod and want to build some sweet looking institute buildings?! If any of these apply to you, Side with the Institute.
  
  


• Do you think synths are people and deserve to be freed? Do you like the idea of the underdog winning through subterfuge rather than brute force? Do you want to free slaves? Do you want to feel like James Bond rather than Rambo? If that's the case Side with the Railroad.
  
  


• Do you believe technology in the hands of locals are bad? Did you like Liberty Prime from Fallout 3? Do you think synths are abominations that need to be destroyed before they cause the robot Apocalypse? Do you like latin and military structure and commaradare? Do you like being chauffeured around in a vertibird and like to take pot shots at things while you get to point B? Side with the Brotherhood.
  
  


• Does none of the above really appeal to you? Do you want the Main Quest to be over as fast as possible? Or do you simply think that the Commonwealth should belong to the people, regardless of who defines it? Or do you want to spare the railroad and brotherhood? Then brain or shank Shaun the next time you see him and Side with the Minutemen.

And unless there is more information, there really is NO ANSWER, no matter what the character would believe, since they do not believe anything at the time. Pure and simple. The correct answer is to side with no one unless they want to describe the character in detail. If they do not, then there is very little to go on.

In the end, The only true answer is to hold off on the endgame until you look at all the factions and decide based on how your character sees and fits in best with them all.

Unfortunately those points are not mutually exclusive, and there lies the dilemma for most people. I agree that we should just go with gut feeling.. even if it may mean not ever completing the main quest, actually...

No one currently in the Institute order your loved ones dead. None of them are responsible for your wife being dead. They weren't even born then.

I hate to Godwin myself here but to me this logic is rather like saying "but nobody in modern Neo-Nazi political parties was a member of the SS!" And in some ways this is worse. A new organization formed with a criminal organization as its model is suspect enough but the Institute isn't even that far removed. It still *is* that criminal organization - actively carrying out the exact same kinds of policies. The guy who is the murderer does in fact still work for the Institute until you kill him.