This is not another Legion vs. Stormcloak thread. PLEASE do not turn it into a debate of such, I'd prefer if the topic didn't get closed for being the 1000th topic on the matter.

My issue is, I have always sided with the Legion in all of my playthroughs. I just see them as the "good guys" and see the Stormcloaks as the "bad guys". I know that it is not as black and white as I have made it seem, but it's the way I've always felt. With that being said, can anyone convince me to play through as a Stormcloak for my main character? I know the simple solution is to just create a new character and roll him as a Stormcloak, but I'd like my main character to finally have a side in the war (I've been ignoring the civil war on that playthrough) and not start a new character.

Some people might ask, "If you feel the Legion are the better option, why not join them"? The answer to which is that lately I've had this strong urge to join the Stormcloaks. I've grown rather fond of Winterhold and the Nordic culture of Skyrim, and would like my dragonborn to be a "True Nord". I would also love to buy Hjerim without having to complete the whole civil war quest line.

With all that info, can anyone convince me to join the Stormcloaks? P.S. A good start would be to explain to me how they aren't misleading Skyrim to it's fate by destroying the Empire and handing it to the Thalmor unknowingly.

Soooo, you're talking to a pro-Stormcloak turned pro-Empire person here;

Here was my excuse:

Ulfric turns a blind eye to the plights of those that are not Nord; one could call him a bigot (me). What's more he's somewhat full of himself and thinks that he deserves High King above all others, in fact; he kills the High King for no better reason than to show his power and to threaten the other Jarl. But he's just one man and just one hold. Races can find another hold and another Jarl who will help them in their time of need.

The Empire/Thalmor want to demolish an entire belief, and for the Nords; a way of life.

So what's the lesser of two evils:

A semi-racist, narcissistic Jarl of Windhelm?
or
The complete denial and extermination of a belief/way of life?

They aren't leading Skyrim to its doom because Ulfric acknowledges the Thalmor could pay more attention to Skyrim after a Stormcloak victory, so he is preparing for a possible Thalmor incursion. In addition, the Thalmor party should show that the Thalmor are busy gaining influence among the influential members of the nobility. For instance, they already have Maven Black-Briar on their side who has influential contacts in the Empire, not to mention Erikur who is so influential that he alone is responsible for bringing the Thieves Guild back to full power in Solitude. Those are just two people. Who knows what other people the Thalmor could persuade to assist them in the time Skyrim is in the Empire. For all we know, the Thalmor already have members of the Elder Council on their side which means you have to go renegade to start a war considering the Elder Council has more power than the Emperor apparently and is full of corrupt, self-serving members.

In addition, Talos worship is restored under an Independent Skyrim. This is important since if Talos is forgotten, reality is unmade which means humans are dead. Considering the book "The Talos Mistake" is already made and the fact that an entire generation of people has grown up being told Talos isn't a god. There can only be so much belief until people eventually just stop caring about Talos. Heck, the priestess at the Temple in Solitude gives an explanation on why Talos shouldn't be a god. If another generation grows up hearing this kind of speech, how long before Talos is forgotten or nobody cares about him?

Furthermore, the Stormcloaks aren't as racist as people think. Those two drunks in Windhelm are just that, a bunch of drunks. Even the harassed Dunmer woman says that those two are the worst and the insults are all they do which in comparison isn't that bad. The reason the Dunmer live in the Gray Quarter is because they were given that land for free after Red Mountain erupted. They don't have to pay taxes or swear fealty to the Jarl so they get free houses without taxes. If Ulfric and the Thalmor are as racist as people think, explain why ALTMER and IMPERIALS are living well-off in Windhelm when Ulfric is fighting the Empire and the Thalmor. The Dunmer are too prideful to actually bother working with the Nords to earn their respect. They forget that Skyrim requires people to prove they deserve something instead of being given it without effort. The Stormcloaks themselves aren't racist as a whole. While there may be some racist members, the Stormcloaks can actually make people tolerant of other races. Take for instance the Falkreath General Goods owner who is a Stormcloak and says he has no problems with strangers since he met a lot of them as a Stormcloak whereas his brother who isn't a Stormcloak is racist.

So the OP asked why they should join the Stormcloaks and you just started a pro-Imperial view when the OP didn't ask for that. Guess another Civil War debate is starting.

I quite liked the way you phrased that. To me, the Empire disowning Talos is not a big deal, because they were forced to by the Thalmor in order to come to a peace agreement.

In short and simple terms, if you weighed all my opinions on NPCs, racial disputes, etc. I'd be pro Empire. But I just have this nagging itch to be a "True Nord" though I disagree with the Stormcloak's point of view.

Do you believe that a people have the right to self-determination?
Do you believe that a people have the right to choose their own religion?
Do you believe that a people have the right to disagree with the opinions of others?

If you said Yes to any one of these, you simply cannot side against the Stormcloaks.

On top of that - the Nords are the most virtuous people in all of Tamriel, and are the most likely to show people of other races, creeds and cultures respect, as long as those people - individually or collectively - also demonstrate virtue.

Clearly they are the most generous of Tamriel's groups - they gave away a chunk of their homeland to a people in flight from a natural disaster! People who had once been their MORTAL ENEMIES!

Rather than choosing them as enemies or pretending to look down on them, all of the other groups of Tamriel would be wise to look to the Nords as an inspiring example of what a just, fair and noble people CAN BE.

The way I see it is this, I agree with different points on both sides which leaves me torn. Essentially, I believe people should have freedom of religion, but I don't agree with just killing your High King and proclaiming yourself king for the hell of it.

Except this isn't modern times. In Skyrim, the strongest needs to rule considering the Nords are a warrior race. Considering Torygg would have lost his position if he refused the duel, that means that the Nords still have the mentality of the strongest needs to rule.

How does not believing in Talos make all humans die?