I thought it would be really cool if Dagoth Ur had went on Nerevar's side if Nerevar tried to persuade Dagoth Ur to rejoining his old organization. For Sotha Sil's loss, he could actually restrengthen the Tribunal to an actual three including Nerevar of course. Dagoth Ur giving up his purposes? To have all his lieutenants who could be solid members of the Tribunal? This would be good for Morrowind as a nation. Having yet another major personnel would've been great.

Except that Dagoth Ur is quite insane and the whole Red Mountain fiasco. It would be probably not be good for Morrowind, as Dagoth Ur is a psycho xenophobe, who doesn't actually recognize the right for the other races to exist, and Vivec is surprisingly fairly practical.

First explain why that wouldn't be as improbable as Satan eating hamburgers with God at a company picnic.

Honestly then from all this, I think we should get rid of Vivec and put Nerevar in the throne room.

Paws point is probably the best.

It's like making tea with a chocolate kettle.

Indeed. You might as well ask why Batman and Joker don't team up to fight crime in Gotham City.

It's extremely unlikely. The very reasons why they're enemies would prevent something like that from ever happening.

Well, Vivec really isn't the ruler of MW, Helseth is. Also, you do have the option to kill Vivec, well then again you can kill anyone in MW.

HAH. Tell that to Jiub, the greatest son of a [censored] alive.

...so what you can't attack anyone on the prison ship in the beginning? Who was the one son of a [censored] who had a NAME?

Exactly. :spotted owl:

Actually, until the events in Morrowind and Tribunal, Helseth and before him Llethan (and Barenziah and Symmachus) were basically figureheads, with all the real power resting in the Tribunal's hands.

And Vivec doesn't die, as witnessed that he was in fact present at his own trial after the events of Morrowind.

That could change with an Hlaalu as king.

I'd assume that even with the Tribunal gone Saryoni (or whoever the current Archcannon might be) could still exercise considerable influence, over 3000 years of control doesn't just vanish overnight, nor does faith...

Actually, until the events in Morrowind and Tribunal, Helseth and before him Llethan (and Barenziah and Symmachus) were basically figureheads, with all the real power resting in the Tribunal's hands.

And Vivec doesn't die, as witnessed that he was in fact present at his own trial after the events of Morrowind.

This is true. The mage with the reputation of a fool named Trebonius Artorius who's head of Vivec's mage guild place interviewed him.

I believe it was Hasphat Antabolis who was present at Vivecs trial, and interviewed him.

We know that Vehk is strong, but Dagoth Ur would have destroyed him and the Tribunal if they attempted to join him. I think you can remember Dagoth Ur's lengthy prose about you joining him, and him pondering over the scenario over and over... Well, Dagoth Ur is sitting in the war room thinking everyone's out to get him.

On a completly unrelated know, does Dagoth Ur have a Daedric name? Doht? Or simply, sharmat?

being a christian I honestly must say thats the most interesting mental picture I have had all day...makes me wonder if mormons also saw jesus playing keep away from statan considering they believe they are brothers....though that also begs the question who is older...meh

anyway, if we look at all the facts, the tribunal is a lost cause from day one and no matter who you stick on it, it was destined to fail. Vivec may have learned the error of his ways but he still commited the error i the first place and was never actually punished for it so its still there...sotha sil was an isolationist who loved his alone time. Almalexia was driven mad by the power so mad in fact that tormented th people she 'loved' with an ashstorm. Not to mention the three of them banded together and killed Nerevar thus proving how absolute power corrupts absolutly.

Just being in the presence of the Heart made Ur more and more insane by the moment I mean did anyone actually cacth the fact He himself was building a giant metal god with which he would destroy all of nirn.

All that said. Sticking Nerevar in Vivec's place would most likely result in the Creation of a mad god whom would have the united forces of the great houses and the ashlander tribes.

Logically, Red Mountain would still stand and so would the construction of Akulakhan. So Logically... The construction would rapidly speed up, the resources would exponetially increase, An army would rise up from the province of Morrowind and the power of the Tribunal would push out all Imperial presence. The temple's Doctorines would be rewriten. The dwemer devices such as the weather witch would be utilized as tools of war and be used against the Empire to destroy supplies, kill or hinder forces, Slow any advances against Morrowind, Buy enough time for the completion of Akulakhan and Pretty much all Outlanders and Nondunmer would be exterminted by ethnic cleansing parties. The great Houses would be restored, the ashlanders would join the fray because Nerevar being their Warlord would call upon them, and the Chimer would rise up and consume all of Tamriel. Most likely they would strike their neighbors of Skyrim and Black Marsh whilst bolstering their defenses at the borders of Morrowind and Cyrodiil.

It wouldn't take much for the God-kings to keep such a small section defended against a single nation what with the treacherous bitter colds of Skyrim and the Perillous and terrible swamps of Black Marsh truely the only real ways in for the Empire. So the Chimer forces would begin laying siege on the lands surrounding Cryodiil thus blocking them off from all help. And finally once they are completely surrounded, Their once Vast empire now under the thumb of the Tribunal would come crashing down upon Cryodiil... Most likely the Chimer would enslave all the other races and use them as soldiers against The imperials, thus rendering the Imperial race extinct, and thus they would cleanse The Nord's next because they are the closest human threat, then the Redguard, the the bretons, then the Argonians, finally the Khajiit, and then the Orcs, wood elves next, and finally the Altmer...

Thats when they would branch out and consume all of Nirn...

so now that I have outlined every little detail in why the Tribunal is a bad bad bad thing in any shape or form or compilation or whatever you would like to call it.

pretty much...if Almalexia and Dagoth Ur are allowed to work together combined with the resources and backing of Nerevar...we have an apocalypse...

Nerevar is the Tiber Septim of Morrowind. Dagoth Ur is the Devil of Morrowind. And Almalexia is the Harley Quin of Morrowind. mix the three togther and the rule of thumb comes into play.

absolute power corrupts absolutly.

He spent a loooooong time putting his great plan into action and since he was very passionate about it and quite insane I doubt he would just so "oh, ok I'll just stop doing and join the Tribunal...but only because you asked me to" just because somone who could possibly be the reincarnation of his dead friend is asking him to.
Well, maybe if you would ask him very politely..

also:
I don't think the Dunmer would like it if someone who they think of as the Devil would be their leader.

Well, at the risk of taking something serious from a simple joke, Ur's name did have a first name and a surname and Sharmat just seems like Temple doctrine; perhaps the equivalent of Devil, Satan, Morningstar or something to that effect.

On another note, I'm sure Ur itself means "zero" or more specifically, "the first/beginning," e.g. Ur-Stone.

Daedric? What constitutes a Daedric name?

Do you mean Voryn Dagoth? That was his name in the past, much like Indoril Neravar.


~TK.R

Like Seht and Vehk and Ayem. If he has one, its probably the Daedric letter 'D'.

Don't forget: Dagoth was the House name AND his last name.

Come to think of it, wouldn't he have had a different last name? Because Dunmer name tradition = house name + first name + surname, as you probably know.
Or is the "head family line" (I couldn't think of any better name) of a house the same as the house name?

i was under the impression that he was the founder of the great house and that it was named after him.

His first name is Voryn , Dagoth Ur is his title as leader of Dagoth. He was a high counselor of House Dagoth before that.

Not every single person in a house has the House name as their first name; it's probably not even their first name, in the conventional sense. Just a mere "title" or term of respect. I'm very confident Dagoth is his last name and he very well may be a family member of the first family; there are some people even named "Telvani" and "Hlaalo," so people with descendents of the original members of the houses could have names of the houses themselves.

Also, most of the people who have these House first names don't have displayed last names (Indoril Nerevar, Hlaalu Helseth, all of the Dagoth High Priests, e.g. Dagoth Gares, Dagoth Hlervu).

Well, of course it would not be their first name, as it his their house name :foodndrink:
As for the reason so little people are using it - I can see how it might be unneccessary to do so in informal circumstances. It is probably avoided when possible.


Most of those are also very "formal" persons. It is still possible I guess, that their names might be "Indoril Nerevar Indoril", for example. Though it seems a bit.. well, inconvenient, in a way.