More realistic? Absolutely. However, I like it like this. If it's one thing I hated from both Morrowind and Oblivion, it's having to carry torches or chaincasting that Starlight spell. It's just a drag, for me personally.

Aside from that: Pitch dark tunnel + torch only illuminating a tiny sphere around me + being jumped by humongous frostbite spider = I'm out of here.

Which is exactly what I want to see happen in at least one ruin. Makes it more thrilling. Heck, you've got the aura whisper shout if you're really in a bind without magic or torches, so you'll always keep on seeing where the enemy is.

Huh. In my game, I give them exactly one torch, and it stays lit as long as they use it. Never had to give them any additional torches either.

I have tried darker dungeon mods and while it is more realistic and darker and all that, it does not make for good overall dungeon experience. It's the same way with movies, scenes in caves and mines and supposedly dark rooms are light up enough for us to see what is going on. If we could not see the actors or the action people would really complain about that. So, movies give us the feel of darkness, but let us see what is going on. Games are done for the same way for the same reason, you get the feel of darkness, but you can see what your doing.

Sure, it might be fun in one or two caves to have it real dark. But, if all the caves were that way, I would only go into them for quests. In most caves, you can remove the torches from sconces. Do that in a few of them (I don't know how dark you can make it really but some caves seem to be only lit with torches) and see if you really like it as game, or if it is just fun as a change of pace cave from the regular ones.

Finally another voice for the coalition of practicality...

The shout is too much cheese for my taste. I prefer not to use it

Umm... both Morrowind and Oblivion were WAY overbright and did not need any torches at all. If anyone had trouble seeing, I would say that there are some adjustments needed to their display. This often happens, of course, so it's important in any event.

Beth completely drops the ball as far as lighting is concerned. It's hilarious that people claim they want to play an RPG but then do not want the RPG elements that help believability. It's even more hilarious when people embrace something that is totally out of place but complain about stuff that adds choice for players (after all, anyone can choose not to use something).

Want unbelievable? How about a vampire cave with ice-covered walls with torches and other heat sources sticking out of them? Right...

@CCNA:

No it is not the same in movies. Watch a movie such as Rambo or The 13th Warrior and see very believable underground lighting on film. That's because the DP actually knew how to light the scenes and how light behaves, of course.

No, we do not get the "feel of darkness" in the Beth lighting scheme because everything underground is lit up bright as day. Also, there is no feel for actually sneaking at all because there are really no shadows.

i would like them doing it in a couple of random dungeons, but i think it would work best if they were mainly in TG or DB questlines, and they had a night vision ring lying around somewhere

Ehhh. Some time ago I entered Dwemer Ruins for some quest. I've just installed Darker Skyrim, Darker Dungeons and Sound of Skyrim mod. I was blown away by it's immersion. Those ruins were finally scary and felt RIGHT. And You know what? At the end I entered a pitch black room filled with fog. Imagine my suprise and how was I shocked when suddenly a huge Dwarven Centurion came out of the dark straight to the light of my Torch. I was so stunned that he managed to kill me.

AMAZING AND FUN!

Oblivion was too bright. However, Morrowind was easily darkened with Gamma. Caves and even night outdoors could go from "Need a torch/lantern/spell to see anything" dark to almost Oblivion bright, but not washed out in a small gamma range. I used to get lost in Vivec at night as I could not find the ramps it was so dark until I adjusted things. With small adjustments of the gamma I could tweak that game to just right where I needed a light to see in some places, but I could see just enough of the cave or area to get the atmosphere of the place.

Note, you have to have your monitor display not at 90% or whatever brightness that is the factory setting or no gamma adjustment will have any real effect.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS/MONCAL/CALIBRATE.HTM

If You want a practical solution then try to remember Game Jam video. There was a Darker Dungeon mod and... a mod that allowed to lit torches and to put them out.

There are tons of ways to make it more practical then it is now. Like some cheap Night-Eye Vision rings in every city store.

Yes, that would be fun in some caves. If all the caves were like that, I would avoid them in a game unless I had to go into them. Just like I would walk out of a movie where the scenes were realistically dark and I could not see the actors or what they were doing, just some flashlight beams for 10 minutes.

Would've love to have had much darker areas, particularly Blackreach. Lot of people would complain though.

I don't get it. With a torch I can see almost everything in a room.

Sorry but dungeons and caves unrealistically bright, powered by never fading torches and candles... that's just stupid.

All your claims that it's more practical the way it is point to one thing.

People are lazy. They rather chose none immersive, unrealistic exploration rather then just svck it up and grab a torch. If You feel offended by this, sorry. For me it's only logical that ruins, tombs and dungeons, caves and other abandoned locations should not be filled with light sources.

It's like.

Hey this is a fantasy game but we were afraid that ppl will be scared by the monsters they encounter so we decided to be practical and turned them into normal humans.

That is correct and is exactly what I posted about in my reply. My monitors have always been adjusted properly, and both Morrowind and Oblivion were way overbright with no need to bother with any sort of torches or lighting spells. I never, ever had any trouble seeing in Morrowind, not even in Dwemer ruins.

This has always been a problem with Beth games, but they refuse to fix it. That leaves it to modders, but they can only do so much, after all.

Let me put it another way. I find the lighting and various effects in games like Half-Life to be far more believable with exactly the same monitor calibration. Quite amusing, really, if it wasn't so sad.

Here's the real problem: Beth needs to include user optimization so that people can adjust things to suit their specific context. This is what mods such as Realistic Lighting do... so why not the actual developer? It's very silly.

You can see what they are doing in those dark scenes. These mods make it so dark that without any lighting by the character, you can not see much of anything or where to go. As I said, fun for some caves, not good for the whole game.

As to Skyrim, I have every thing adjusted so that the caves and dungeons are dark and look right in my game and I have no mods. I could not do that with Oblivion. Could the lighting be better, sure, but the caves are so cool looking that I want to see them.

The lighting in Skyrim is blinding, compared to Oblivion. Could be just my eyes, due to many years working at night and rarely seeing the sun(vampire jokes are ok ).

The overly Desaturation the times of day transition into effects my eyes, and sunny days may as well be a gigantic light bulb. I've had to fix this with the mod, IMAGINATOR, which allowed me to adjust the display like you would on a TV. Now my game is friendly on my eyes.

There is a light slider.... slide it. Turn it till the lighting looks realistic. A torch should not light up a giant room... just that corner. In oblivion I went to far and ended up stepping on giant rats because it was so dark... and that was in the sewers at the beginning of the game. I just set it to where it looked realistic, I eventually had to move it some to see where I was going. In fallout it was ghouls... those are scary when all you hear is their breath. I mainly do it with sneaky characters so I don't yell at the game when someone is staring at me and doesn't attack. If you turn the slider to where the lighting looks realistic it makes sense why they cannot see you.

Now there is way to much light in dungeons anyway. Falmer would try to have as little light as possible you would think... of course most of the light in their locations are the glowing fungus on the walls. Same goes for vampires, no need for light, and they can 'see' the mushrooms to take them down so vampire locations should be really dark. Now bandits, mages, necromancers, and even draugh to a degree would want light. I do like that you can put out torches. I wish there was a darkness spell that let you put out lights from a distance.

And there are solutions to it being dark. Torch, or candlelight which keeps your hands free... its a novice spell so anyone can cast it, and of course night eye. Of they could bring back light enchantments. A sword that glows(like dawnbreaker), or even a shield or armor would be cool. Same goes for nighteye enchantments.

This. I have mine turned down and if there is a shelf in a dark area of a cave or dungeon I cannot see anything on the shelves unless my crosshairs go over it and the name pops up on the screen. I need a torch or spell to see. But in lit areas or outside it is just fine. I understand the reasoning for what BGS did, just think a little more "atmosphere" in caves/ruins/dungeons would have been a nicer touch.

Though I do agree that sometimes it seems odd that ruins or caves have some of the lighting they do. Who goes around and keeps all of those torches going? The Draugr Deathlord?

Did anyone else think this was going to be a thread about necrophilia?

You could always try playing with your eyes closed.

I would like some dark areas.