I'm talking about ways people are saying things in relation to this game, and how it's promoted, that should set off a lot of alarm bells.


1. - From Game Informer Online - "What Elder Scrolls Online Offers Skyrim Fans, MMO Players."

Why are they saying what this game offers Skyrim fans? Did the new mass of buyers for Skyrim suddenly become more important to appease than those of us who have been with the series longer than the six months since Skyrim launched? Several posters within this article said the same things, namely user karadom, and while you could place blame on the writer of the article for a poor choice of sur-title, here's something else...

"...but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players." - First page of the GI feature, as quoted from Paul Sage.

Again, why use the phrase 'Skyrim players?' What makes them so different from Elder Scrolls players? Given how vastly changed Skyrim is from the past four games, most of those changes not being good ones I should add, I would say them being the new batch of ES players has suddenly put more focus on them. The amount of time between its launch and this announcement could explain it, but when you talk Elder Scrolls, you should mean ALL of us who play and follow the games. Not people who play Skyrim, because Skyrim is not the entirity of the series.

And that segways into my next point.


2. - The cover art of Elder Scrolls Online.
[img]http://donthatethegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/the-elder-scrolls-online.jpg[/img]

You can say this is subject to change, but what's the first thing you think of when you see that ESO art? You think of the Skyrim boxart. Same kind of design, same background, nearly identical colors. So, if you're a fresh face, joining The Elder Scrolls because of Skyrim, this art will likely entice you to get hyped about the game. The reason has to do with brand recognition, and I'll show you how this works.

Here is every boxart, from Arena to Skyrim. What do you see common among them?

[img]http://image.allmusic.com/00/agg/cov200/drg000/g009/g009792dxa2.jpg[/img][img]http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/DAGGERFALL.jpg[/img][img]http://www.gamershell.com/static/boxart/large/2526.jpg[/img][img]http://www.thezombiechimp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-box-art.jpg[/img][img]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3661/1895988-skyrim.png[/img]

Now, you can see that from Morrowind onwards, the design becomes more minimalist, and some similarities exist from that to Skyrim, but that's not a common pattern overall. Maybe the use of lighter, dull colors? Possibly. If you look at all of those boxarts, only one thing is common among most of them: The font of The Elder Scrolls header. The font is called Planewalker, a font used in older Magic the Gathering cards. It has a very unique fantasy vibe as well.

However, even with that, why copy the style of art Skyrim did? As defined in Investopedia, "Brand recognition is most successful when people can state a brand without being explicitly exposed to the company's name, but rather through visual signifiers like logos, slogans and colors.

With only the symbol and colors to go on for TESO trailer art, you're going to think Skyrim first. Not the other games before it or what they've meant for the series. So, just by using that style of advertising, Zenimax Online has indirectly told the new Skyrim players, "This game is going to appeal to you." How much you like or dislike Skyrim is going to impact that, which bring up my third point.


3. - Overuse of negatives in relation to content within the game.

I'm sure everyone saw the NeoGaf article listing everything the GI feature was saying about TESO. Now, here's a headcount of every time something content-wise is mentioned negatively. This applies to the GI article, not the NeoGaf post.

Eight times.

-You can't be a werewolf or vampire
-There most likely won't be dragons
-There will be no player housing
-There will be no NPC romances or marriage
-"Recreating the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
-You can't master every discipline
-You can't combo with the abilities of enemy players though, so if an enemy faction player drops an oil slick, you can't set it on fire
-The combat model will not be real time due to latency

This is again an instance of bad choices of words and explanations. Each of those things listed are aspects of The Elder Scrolls in certain ways, some having been around since Daggerfall, others being more recent. If you're a fan of the series beyond Skyrim, this kind of negativity is going to turn you away because you've seen it in the games. You know it's been there, and in many cases, people know such things exist in other MMOs.

TERA has real-time combat, yet the graphics are much prettier. You can buy or build property in Second Life. You can master every discipline in Firefall Online, of which there are over 100.


Those three things stuck out the most to me while reading over what we know about this game so far. I'm willing to wager the look of the art was intentional given Skyrim's recent launch, as well as the other points I raised related to that.

What about you all? Agree? Disagree? Discuss it, and be sure to offer good responses.

Thats the truth of it, Ive started with Oblivion so not much of an old fan here, but definetely a new one, and loving it so far. Also, I believe thats the approach the interviewer gave not exactly the developers approach but in any way Skyrim is their latest release and the most popular. Whilst I agree in some way with the rest of your post, I cant discuss on other MMOs features(not much of an MMO or online games fan here) but pisses me off thinking of a game that have been developed along what, 7 years is this correct? in extreme secret, and now when they finally announce it, they release a teaser that, is just BS with a whirling logo and some popular voice actor presenting a shallow context. That didn't tease me, that frustrate me... so along all those years they can't even show some proper teaser? Why all the "classified" info, I believe thats so unrespectful with the community... also online games hardly offer any attribute for me right now so Im guessing I'll stick with Skyrim and hope for good DLC content to be released soon...

I would say it is because Morrowind and Daggerfall players arent worth trying to appease due to the fact that no matter what Zenimax do the Morrowind and Daggerfall fans will always consider it to be inferior due to the fact that it isnt Morrowind or Daggerfall.

I heard they were making TESO and i thought i was being trolled. I found out it's true, read about it some, and realized I will probably never touch this game. I can't blame them for trying to jump on the MMO bandwagon and make money. I can blame everyone who buys into this kind of BS hype time and time again. I'm not talking about hard core TES fans that will play this game regardless. I'm talking about the droves of MMOers who will jump all over this thinking it will be the next Kesmai, UO, EQ, or WoW. If the game is good buy it. Don't buy it because of the hype. I'm asking too much, I know. (If you consider video games a hobby, you will like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_of_Kesmai#Legends_of_Kesmai)

The Almost Guy in Charge interview on Gameinformer.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/09/the-origins-of-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

Dspite I startet playing Morrowind, and I tend to loop in that way of think "All other games are impressive but THEY′re NOT SKYRIM", I mus completely agree with you.
In other hand, I loved Oblivion, and I love Skyrim MORE. And Im possitive about this MMO.

In the case of the comparisson of the presentation of Skyrim and TESO, It would make no sense to represent it with older games, Its just the evolution the presentation of tES in general is taking in its game presentation.
I think we will find same or similar font in the game released and so. We shall se, they may surprise us all, for good or bad.

I understand what you say. The "salvation" for people like me, would be a ROLE PLAY server, separated from the merely PVP server for the people just want to go and crazy-frenzy-kill (and just so, because you can do it in a rol context)
For the the game′s strong point, the thing that attract me to play it, is the chance to build a character and play as it, role with other people as my character. That is what Im waiting for and I hope my dream come true.

True. If the game was in development for so long, why not show some form of gameplay? From everything they're saying so far, they have the combat system working, or at least functional.


Hence why I'm raising the question of why Skyrim players are suddenly more valuable a commodity than Elder Scrolls fans. Isn't that a bit of an insult, to indirectly say that if you don't like the newest game, you're not who this MMO is trying to appeal to. One which encompasses all of Tamriel, which all fans want to see?

I don't recall that kind of mindset from Behesda GS from Morrowind to Oblivion, or Daggerfall to Morrowind.


Evolution in gaming never has to mean forget about your past titles. Unless you want it to. Which is where I hold a lot of my opinions that Skyrim is nowhere near as good as Oblivion or Morrowind.

That said, If I was advertising this game, I'd go the route of the Superman #701 issue. Have a dozen faces ghosted over a 3/4 bird's eye view of Tamriel's map, with the central logo ghostly behind all of that. It gives a better impression of encompassing all the races in the game and hinting at what you can do, versus the circle logo which wrongfully makes you think of Skyrim instead of the entire series.

Now I see what you mean. But that's not how you do marketing.

First, the game hasn't been in developement since 7 years, but 5. Also, they are merely using the same politic they used in Skyrim. Be sure that we are going to have a lot of information about TES:O at E3.

Now, about marketing : The goal is to appeal the widest audience and get it to play your game, wich is especially true in the case of a MMO (indie hardcoe MMO are an exception). There isn't many people who played Arena and Daggerfall, same for Morrowind, even if it was more known, Oblivion disapointed Morrowind's fans. Now, I didn't looked all the opinions about Skyrim, but overall Skyrim was a huge success as it pleased the fans as well as the most casual players. So, if they are advertising for TES:O, they have to go for Skyrim's fanbase since it's the largest one, and also because they know damn well that a lot of the die-hard fans view TES games as solo games, wich means they are more likely to get angry/scared other TES:O (wich proves to be true).
Also, there is a second reason why the focuse on Skyrim's player : Since this is a TES MMO, they have to stay connected to the TES universe, wich also works through pictures. And the latest pictures that people have in mind when thinking about TES, are related to Skyrim, and it's trailer.

Now, your real concern seems to be about the lack of information. But I think that they announced the game now so that they could get people worked up and then make some big announcement at the E3.

I majored in English and I didn't read that much into the article.

To address the last point first: there were 8 points using negative language in 16 pages. That's not really that much, and most of these points were raised in response to questions. It's not like the developers spontaneously declared, "You can't have this." They're answering questions that the community (and likely the GI staff) had regarding features.

The second point makes no sense. Minimalist design is something a lot of people like. I personally prefer it to the cluttered box art of olden days.

And the first point: feeling paranoid much? They're referring to Skyrim fans because it's been years since any other Elder Scrolls game was released. Also, Skyrim is the most popular title to date, which means it has the largest fan base to draw from. It makes perfect sense that they'd focus on their most recent and largest market. I also don't think that the developers consider Skyrim fans to be all that different from fans of the previous games. And they're probably right, with the notable exception of a few die-hard Morrowind fans who think that the removal of spreadsheets signals the beginning of the End Times.

Its very simple, Skyrim is the most recent TES game. Millions are playing it as we speak so it is saying why would players who are playing Skyrim or players playing an MMO want to play TESO.

- Most of those negative points were in relation to game content, not about how many times something negative was said about what you could do. I made that clear when I posted, but if I had included all negative points/topics, that number would be at least 14.

- The design wasn't just what I was pointing out. It was how Skyrim and TESO are using the same color scheme and style it their art. Rather than trying to tell you, "This is an all inclusive title, meant for fans outside of Skyrim's base", the art makes you think only of Skyrim, not the other games.

- Really? You're going that route? Putting that question aside, here's my rebuttal: Do you like the lessened stats system in Skyrim, or the older style in Arena-Oblivion? Depending on which you picked, you're in a different base of people, because Skyrim's systems were heavily simplified to draw in more buyers. You lost certain complexities that made you want to replay the game in the process however, the central ones being your race and class choices.

(If you want to argue classless is better, I think Alpha Protocol is the best rebuttal on that. You had the option of a Recruit, which was classless and weaker, but left the other classes for players who wanted to go those routes. Bethesda GS would have satisfied both sides of the player base by doing something similar, so why not try and use it in the future?)

Here's another question. Do you like the all-encompassing quest chains in Morrowind/Oblivion, or the quest chains in Skyrim where you could safely ignore over half of the world? Seriously, look back at the last three games, or even Daggerfall. Which ones got you to explore every part of the world as part of the main quest/faction quests? In Skyrim, if you followed the main questline, which is the crux of the dragons returning story, you don't go into most of the world. Couple that with the two hour minimum completion time, and Skyrim is the game I'd want the least inspiration from concerning an MMO.

Well gee whiz. I like all the Elder Scrolls games. Which I guess just makes me a strange old platypus.

Yeah I'd agree with the OP, it's made to appeal to new fans (OB and *especially* Skyrim) and traditional MMO fans, rather than to long-time franchise fans.

Regards,
Eno Hlaalu

I can't imagine why. Aside from money, a wider audience-base, and an actual ability to please the target audience. But aside from all those things, I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to target their largest, most contemporary audience.

If that was true then one could argue that even Skyrim isn't made to appeal to long time ( Daggerfall/Morrowind) TES fans.

Indeed Boreilx, I'd say console owners and younger gamers came first.

Regards,
Eno Hlaalu

If by younger, you mean younger than the strapping lad in your picture, then you're probably right.