That's exactly what I've found Xreasonz. Framerate limiters = bad, and because you can't play the game with vsync off without them, by extension vsync off = bad.

Sounds like its fundamental to the engine but hopefully it's something Bethesda can fix down the line.

In the meantime we can spread the word that turning vsync off is NOT a way to play the game (as generally accepted).

Edit: btw Xreasonz, can you run the game flawlessly with vsync on but using borderless windows also?

havnt tried Borderless window, does it reduce Lag when Vsync is enabled?
The reason why ive been running Vsync along with fpslimiters is to get rid of lag when vsync is enabled
Also, sli wont work unless its fullscreen if im right... so im in a bit of a pickle there

edit : also merry overrated Xmass !!

I've been using autohotkey to create a borderless window for Skyrim since day one. SLI has never had issues for me. I tested both fullscreen and borderless window and I still get the same sluggish, lower fps drops, input laggy experience with vsync on and triple buffering on or off. This is either setting vsync either via "ipresentinterval" or forcing through the nvidia cp.

With vsync off and using FPS limiter, I may get a couple delays here and there - but that versus the other scenario is more acceptable for me.

Again, SLI has been working perfectly - measuring using evga precision.

I think a future patch will sort all of this. Patience, right?

I recently started a new character and have been using a bows a lot more than before. There's definitely some mind-bogglingly bad code in the game involving drawn bows.

Sometimes, when I draw a bow for 10+ seconds, the arrow flies out a few metres at best, as if it had been drawn for the minimum time possible. On other occasions, trying to shout just before an arrow is released will cause the arrow to stay drawn after I release the mouse button. If the arrow launches, my shouts don't work for several seconds afterwards even if my character appears to be ready to shout.

This can not be an issue with multiple keypresses or anything, as only one actual key was involved (the other was a mouse button). The first issue could be one of the many physics bugs, but the shout/bow attack interaction just stinks of the concept of a state diagram going *whoosh* over the head of a drooling programmer as he struggles to comprehend what variables do and why the code does not even compile.

Seriously, the controls do not make up a very complicated state machine. It should not be hard to make them work.

this problem originates back to oblivion, they basicly coded their entire engine, NPC speech and movement, etc around 60 fps, anything higher and the game would go in hyperspeed, lower and it would become slowmotion.
Oversight? no just lazy, they had consoles on their mind, and it showed, leaving it to the modding community to fix it. That fact alone makes me sad, TEs series and Fallout series are for me the greatest single player RPG's, only to be let down by lazy programming.
oh well we still got modders ! oww wait ...

I have an i3-2105 and GTX 550 and am experiencing the same issues with Skyrim unmodded. Shouts not firing and the sneak toggle not working are the issues I encounter most often but I've also had problems with the bow not responding. I was running the EVGA Precision FPS counter when I last encountered this issue and was in the forties so it appears it is a software issue and not my low end hardware.

I don't think either of these has anything to do with framerates.

For whatever reason they just wrote the controls in a way that prevents more than one action from taking place at a time, so you can't leave sneak mode until your current action has completely finished, you can't release a shout while a bow animation is still going on, and you generally can't do anything while staggered. If releasing a button or key would cause something to happen and your character can't do that at the time because of this limit, the controls get all screwy because the input no longer matches the character's state. There's also no feedback of why your character is failing to do something, so the controls just end up feeling unresponsive.

Yes, this was present in Oblivion to some degree but in Skyrim there's way more stuff going on in combat, so this clumsy game logic's causing more issues this time.

It does sound like the fundamental way the game is coded. That said, it's not completely tied to framerate, as in your framerate can drop to whatever, and the game will still be synched just fine.

It's only when the framerate is limited or is allowed to go beyond 60 that issues occur.

I hope bethesda is reading this and have some solution for pc users in the wings. The easiest solution is probably just to make the default vsync work without annoying stutters or lag (like running in a window), so we wouldn't have to resort to all these tweaks.

Hope you had a great xmas too. You should definately give borderless windows a go. From other people's impressions it sounds like the surest way to get rid of lag/stutter while leaving the all important vsync on.

Borderless Windows has a ton of other options in addition to removing borders. The act of removing the window border has no effect on gameplay - it must be another setting in borderless windows.

I still believe running with vsync off and a frame limiter is the way to go for some. Works best for me and gives me a fluid experience that vsync ruins. FWIW, I'm using the ENB post processing effects + frame limiter as part of that (included in STEP project on Skyrim Nexus).

To be clear - SLI will work in either bordered, borderless, or fullscreen mode just the same.

_{Maybe Skyrim is using turn based combat and Bethesda forgot to inform us.}

just incase some of you dont know the reason people are using a fps limiter in the first place. it's to get rid of the micro stutter issue that can be seen around lights and also in numerous other places around skyrim, examples are jorrvaskr (left room just inside of) and the the mountains north of clearpine pond
the delayed action bug can result because of using a limiter to fix that issue (i never saw it delay without a limiter in place)
the rare delay with the limiter is a more tolerable bug than all that nasty microstutter to me at-least (if your fps dips alot (less that 59 in combat) it may delay more often, the bug is skyrims though (probably a fps limiter with skyrim bug), its not AMD or NVIDIA's

if you use a fps limiter dont run the engine so it starts clipping or it will start delaying spell changes or arrow shots, the engine is a piece of crap anyway and especially so when you take it out of its normal functioning with a fps limiter

for example, a 2600k at 3.4Ghz has issues passing all the geometric data the "distance sliders" amount to on ultra for your graphics cards to render the whole of whiterun or marakath without lag, engine lag (not graphics rendering lag)
it also engine lags on high, on the medium preset a stock clocked 2600k can pass enough info to the gpu's without clipping to render all those distance settings looking from the forge in whiterun without a touch of engine lag, my 2600k overclocked to 4.9Ghz + the abstraction layer mod lets me my gpu's render the whole of marakath or whiterun on ultra settings without it clipping

with the 12.1previews and dxtory locked at 59fps and the abstraction layer, i can run it at 2560*1440 with everything on ultra (shadows on high) no AA, 16*AF and it runs perfectly smooth and there is no delay issues 2600k@4.9Ghz, G.Skill 2133Mhz ram, 120GB hyper X SSD, 2*6950's crossfire, Heatkiller rev3, duel D5 in series and a 9*120mm RAD, Hazro HZ27WC

if i had only a low end processor and ran it with a fps limiter i'd choose the low preset Or it will start delaying spells/bow attacks
if i had only a medium range processor and ran it with a fps limiter i'd choose the medium presets Or it will start delaying spells/bow attacks
if i had high end CPU at stock clocks and ran it with a fps limiter i'd choose the high presets Or it will start delaying spells/bow attacks

if you dont care about lag and you just want maximum quality dont use a FPS limiter as it will probably bug out your spells/bow attacks and you'll probably end up with alot a eyestrain and maybe even migraines from it, not recommended

If you do overclock use a decent CPU heatsink and fan + case ventilation and watch out for thermal throttling or it'll probably screw up your performance. a temp monitor and intel burn test 1.52 or later are recommended

so have plenty of headroom with your CPU and distance settings sliders so it doesn't clip (slideshow effect, lag or whatever you want to call it) if you use a fps limiter, as it's taking the game out of it's norm functioning it will cause spell/bow delays without that headroom

@shiva

the reason for fps limiters is to
A ) reduce stutter when used alone, OR
B ) to reduce inputlag with vsync enabled

the issue for me starts to occur, when im entering high fps locations, ie indoors, caves, etc, then im talking about 120+ fps WITH fpslimiters
outdoors my fps usually stays withing 60-70 fps (ultra with added HD texture packs) city's may vary due to CPU limitations

so when the game receives +120 fps the engine goes into overdrive, just as it did in oblivion and fallout3, FalloutNV
Even when limiting the fps this stays apparent sadly, and it causes this issue.

this problem is not a problem to be fixed by modders in the first place, its to be fixed by beth themselfs... but i doubt it since the used a "brand new engine" "winkwink"