So I know this has been brought up in other threads, but I haven't seen a thread on this yet.

Everyone is pretty convinced that the damage scaling for pretty much every spell in the school of Destruction has been vastly scaled back when compared to Oblivion and Morrowind. Normally, I play Assassin characters, but with as beautiful as the magic graphics looked I just had to try a Mage.

I love Mages in Skyrim, I just wanted to get that out there.

I understand spell synergies, and that in order to become a minor god in this game, you have to combine the effects from two or more spells (plus the requisite Perks), in order to take full advantage of your abilities in combat. I understand this, and I have no problem with summoning a Dremora Lord whilst at the same time resurrecting one of my fallen enemies into one of my minions, and sending them both into melee while hitting them from a distance with Lightning/Fire/Frost spells. I understand this.

But in Oblivion and Morrowind, it was much, much easier to specialize in a specific school. If I wanted to be a Conjurer, I could focus most/all of my energy into developing the Conjuration school with minimal to zero in Destruction and I'd be fine. If I wanted to play the most sly of Illusionists, I could focus everything in Illusion and when an eventual combat would roll around, Invisibility plus my best sword made sure that I always got a killing Sneak attack in. If I wanted to deal out damage by the bucketful and rain Fire and Lightning down upon my enemies until they were nothing more than greasy soot stains on the ground, I could do that.

I could do all of that in the past two iterations of this outstanding franchise... except for Destruction.

Destruction has been scaled back so much in Skyrim that I found that even at level 50, my Mage is forced to use other schools to keep me alive. I have to summon my most potent creatures and undead to take all of the aggro from my enemies. It has been scaled back so much, that even with the Augmented Electricity Perk with two points (max you can do for this Perk) chucked in it, I still can't kill all but the weakest of enemies with less than three bolts. It helps to be able to stagger them with the Impact Perk all lit up, but it still shouldn't take that many shots.

When I go into combat with my Mage, here's how a typical combat goes. My Dead Thrall runs off to kill those who oppose me. As he/she approaches the enemies, I summon a Dremora Lord to assist in the upcoming slaughter. I use Illusion to turn one or two of my enemies into attacking some of their own compatriots. I cast Lightning Cloak just in case someone decides to get ballsy with a sword/axe/warhammer, along with an armor spell from Alteration just to make sure that my defenses hold (I do have to admit that I love the usefulness of the Mage Armor Perk).

Finally after all of that, I can start using Firebolt/Firestorm/Lightning Bolt/etc. to start mopping up the weakest of the survivors from my summoned creatures onslaught. While I admit that it has been pretty effective so far, success hinges on me having the time to get all of that done. If I get surprised by an enemy, the battle becomes infinitely more difficult, but the same general strategy applies.

In past games, I could have cut out half or all of that, and used solely used the school that is supposed to have all of the kick-ass ***battle spells***.

Bethesda, I love you guys. I love your games. I am a hardcoe Gamer, and I spend almost as much time on my Xbox as I do at work in a week (that's a lot of time...). I love Skyrim, and haven't had any of the troubles that I read about on these Forums. But Destruction has been killed in this episode of your beloved series.

I understand wanting to keep a healthy, fair balance in your games, but you went a bit too far when you toned down Destruction. This school can't/doesn't keep pace with the other schools of magic, and the Mage "class" or type of character suffers for it. Yes most of the time I love mixing all of the schools together to create the best possible combat combo, but much of the time I would love to be able to stand and deliver with Destruction. I want to feel like a minor God again, roasting all who oppose me with the power of my battle spells.

Bethesda, I am rarely ever critical of you. Usually I understand your rational for these games and am able to defend/argue in your favor against people who don't want to see the brilliance in your games.

But I can't look past this. Destruction needs to be fixed. The scaling needs (at least at a minimum) to have its damage scaling be brought back on par with the other schools.

I know you may never read this, but please fix Destruction. The loss of power, of what this specific school is supposed to be about, has caused me more deaths than I can count and it's svcking the fun out of playing most Mage types. The lack of correct scaling with Destruction really forces people (or at least me...) into playing one generic Mage type, and I think that really detracts from what an Elder Scrolls game is built around.

To be who I want, how I want.

Thank you for your time, and I am interested in all thoughts from my fellow Gamers on this subject.

• I am in a complete agreement with you there. In my opinion destruction has been severely affected in this game and it does not get even close to previous installments of the TES games magnitude when it comes to base damage inflicted by spells. I have always been a mage while playing TES, since Morrowind I play as a mage and to be honest I find mages to be the most fun and challenging of all styles. With that being saiD I started Skyrim of course as a mage …but I have been forced to change my combat style (regardless my efforts). I play constantly in master difficulty, sometimes I switch down to expert but most of the time I spend playing in master and I have to say that if the school of destruction is fairly weak in this game ..Playing in master is …..its a joke ….a single frost troll takes “” 5 dual casted fire bolts” with both points for fire damage perk applied to get him under 10% of health and let me clarify that it takes a lot of magica that I know many ppl don’t have to spend. This is just a single example where you have an idea of how weak the school was set to be. My combats are pretty much as the yours but I have to ad that when you face multiples enemies my magica always will run out ….then you face two choices either you stop the action (which I hate) and jump into what in my opinion is the most uncomfortable menu system of all TES games , scroll down 25 items and take some magica potions to replenish or LIKE I DO…. Turn into barbarian mode ,withdraw your weapon and charge in , if your magica regeneration is good you may switch back to mage mode before the battle is over but honestly once im there I just keep blowing my sword left and right (very boring) every single point i used in one handed or light armor it could have been puut into conjuration/destruction or ilusion but if i do..id be the snack of every middle boss in the game. I’m the type of player that will always avoid close combat since being a mage and even with the mage armor perk it’s just logic that you will be much unprotected against close combat as I said I’m an old scholl mage and really like keep it like that so I wear robes ….no light armor created or overpowered with +200 armor in each item…even being that part of your choices I hate it ….if im mage im a mage robes on …staff on hand and spells flying around…SO yeah I really would like for them to turn up destruction a little bit in order to make my game a lot more enjoyable . As i already mentioned in another discussion DESTRUCTION MAGIC IS NOT THAT DESTRUCTIVE IN SKYRIM!!!

Exactly.

The only reason my Magica doesn't typically run out on me is that I have a certain number of Perks and Enchanted Items that effectively make my Destruction spell cost zero. The only place I spend Magica when going into battle is on my summonings and on any Alteration spells that I use to protect myself. So I'm able to stand outside of the battle and send Lightning Bolt after Lightning Bolt because my Magica isn't decreasing.

But even with that working in my favor, the base damage of the spells is so low compared to the power I can exert over my enemies by using spells from other schools. Like I said, it seems as if they were trying to bring all of the magic schools into balance and just over shot the mark when they scaled back Destruction.

And also as I said in my OP; If they can't/won't bring Destruction back to its glory days from Morrowind/Oblivion, then IMHO they at least need to bring it up even with the other schools of magic. Because as things stand right now, Destruction is very underpowered if you compare the base damage of spells to the effects of other schools. It's just very underpowered and seems so impotent when being used.

This also wouldn't be difficult adjustment either. In one of the patches, all you have to do is insert a couple of lines of code that simply raises the value of the base damage for all the spells tagged as Destruction Spells. Yes, enemy spells would get slightly stronger as well, but Destruction would be useable again. And it doesn't have to change the value by much, just to bring it at least even with the other schools in comparison. The look of the spells doesn't have to change. The way they act doesn't have to change. It really is a simple fix to bring their damage value up.

i didn't really use magic that much in oblivion... but... this character i've made primarly a mage. I have destruction leveled to 100 (finally) with no perks added, and if I shoot someone in the chest while crouching with chain lighting while infront of the whiterun tower where you battle the first dragon, it will litterally launch their dead body 1/2 way between there and whiterun. if thats seriously scaled down damn... oblivion has some powerful spell lol... I'm not sure if the damage scales with levels, I dont have any low level guys with high destruction to even test it with. Flames and Frost dont seem to do alot of damage to enemies even with the level im at, but they are apprientace spells too (spelling), and that might be why.

If i hit multiple people with chain lighting it seems to do less damage, if i hit them from a distance, verse up close and personal, this too also seems to do less damage. Below in my signature is my character im refering to, along with all worn items.

I have noted sometimes I have to re-equip the destuction stuff to get the effects to work, but other then that it seems pretty strong. Haven't really used any of the other destruction spells besides Chain Lighting, Flames, Frost, and a occational ward in front of coffins.

Normally I'd agree with you.

But when compared to the damage that Morrowind's and Oblivion's Lightning spells did, Skyrim's Lightning Bolt just seems weak. It doesn't do as much damage, nor is the effect on enemies nearly as pronounced as it used to be. And it's not just for Lightning either, Fire and Frost damage are the same way (not that they should be different...;P).

I just think that the damage for Destruction needs to be at least ramped up so that it matches in balance with the power of the effects from other schools.

hrm... i should go try to find fireball and see what that does... thats a area of effect spell, i think master isn't it? With Chain Lighting, its taking me between 2-4 hits on the NPC's before they die, I've only ran across 1 necromancer who seemed to be immune to lighting... that wasn't any fun.... guess i should start playing with all the other spells as well besides destuction heh... I got them leveled up and just totally forgot about them...

lol I do that myself. I have to constantly remind myself that Alteration, Illusion, and Restoration have spells that will help me in battle as well... lmao

its really bad when you have a healing spell that heals you quickly (I keep forgetting to use them in battle), still have full magika, and you run off from a fight to drink a Vigorious Healing Potion.

I never played any other difficulty than master. On my first character, I tried a bit of everything before I decided to go the "thief" route. Being a veteran player of the elder scroll serie (back to arena) It did not take me long to realize destruction was underpowered. Quite frankly, I tought maybe that was because I insited on playing at master difficulty. Now I realize I'm not the only one thinking that damage spell are not up to the standard.

I've recently created a Spellsword character or as I like to call it my Sith character and I have to say I'm with the OP on this one. My Lighting spells don't feel as strong as they should be even with Augmented Shock at max. Don't get me wrong with weaker enemies its no problem at all but when it comes to enemies that are on your level of strength I have to rely more on combat. Destruction doesn't seem like something that can stand alone. You have to really pound into enemies with shock before they fall. For example my Wall of Storms doesn't seem to have that "umph" when dealing with another mage. I guess it was to make sure things weren't too easy but man I want to feel all powerful.

I did forget to mention, when i cast destruction spells I always dual cast them.

Fireball spell will do the same amount of damage whether your Destruction skill is 10 or 100. Same with every other spell in the Destruction school. Skill increases only reduce spell cost, which can easily be reduced to 0 with Enchanting. It's hard to feel like a badass when Barbarian Joe can enchant his armor set to where he can cast the same Destruction spells as you for little to no cost, and both your spells and his do the same amount of damage. It makes a lot of Destruction perks useless (except the ones which increase damage, albeit in pitiful amounts), and it makes you wonder what's the point getting to 100 in Destruction anyway.

damn... so i shouldn't of waited till destruction was at 80 to get chain lighting? gahhh...

That is a very valid statement ....being a mage myselft does not makes me any better when it comes to damage per spell than any other class.....as you said there it comes the guy with the sword and the shield and cast the same spell with the same damage i do by only spending three perks and i filled the whole tree and still the only difference is the magica use per spell....its really not fair for us mages ..thats the reason why i say that i have been forced to change my play style weather i like it or not....

The main reason i "always" like to play as a mage is because of the versatility we have and of course as i said before i find it the most challenging of all classes ...a regular barbarian with + 300 of armor super high two handed/ one handed enchanted armor and weapons only charge in and blow the heck out of everybody( in my book its just not funny ...f course this is my opinion i respect everybody's play style) there are many variations and build ins and specially with a game like skyrim but i find mages to be one of the best classes when it comes to combat and options ....i usually release rally on lydia for example before battle use a armor spell on myself conjure two creatures and then start throwing all kind of destruction spells (in dependance of my enemy) if i have more than one when one is taken down i make sure to cast summoning spell and get him up to fight for me one the last one is standing i cast sould trap and get his sould ..lol so its really entertaining and challenging at the same time u are always switching options and combining them.....

And my issue is also with the fact that there is no difference in damage between a straight Mage character, and a guy who's spent his whole career as a Warrior, but straps on some enchanted armor and is then doing the same damage as I am with spells.

Either fix the higher level Perks, or ramp up the damage for the Destruction school. It's just too weak as it stands right now, and doesn't have the... oomph to take care of enemies that level with me. They are always far tougher than the current level of Destruction spell that your skill/character level will allow you to buy. And that has been tried and proven by numerous people.

ok now im curious....

I know there are leveled items in the game... and your saying once you learn a spell it doesn't up in damage... but ... are their leveled spell books as well? i.e. a guy who buys a destruction spell at level 5 vs. a guy who buys the same spell at level 25... maybe?

No, but I'm getting off track with my own argument. lol

The Destruction spells don't level in damage, but when compared to enemies at your own level, even if you have the best spell possible spell you can buy in the Destruction school, it isn't as effective on your enemies as a spell of another school would be. Even if I have Chain Lightning and have both Perk points into Augmented Shock, the effect of the damage on an enemy is far inferior compared to a spell of the same level of a different school.

In Morrowind and Oblivion, it wasn't this way. In those two games, Destruction had enough heft to its spells that they could be a stand-alone solution should combat break out. All I had to do would be to start ripping out with my Lightning Bolts, and if I didn't want to use any other schools then I didn't have to.

In Skyrim; the damage of the spells, when held in comparison to the level your enemies are at (which is based on your level), and then when you get the next "tier" of spells based upon your Skill level, Destruction comes out of the pile as the weakest school. It's spells aren't really "Battle Spells" by their diminished statistical effects in this game. They're more like kind of lethal annoyances.

For instance. In Oblivion, with Destruction maxed at 100 (Master) and a level 35+ character, a base Fireball would take me three shots to kill a Dremora leveled to my level.

In Skyrim; with the same relative stats, it takes me 5 to 6 shots to kill a Dremora.

This is the disparity that I'm saying needs to be fixed. This is why I say that the damage scaling needs to be improved/up'ed.

Sorry about the double post (does it count if they're a day apart? O.o).

So, Bethesda... in patch 1.5 or on the first DLC (whichever one you guys are tackling next), could we please have the school of Destruction made relevant again? It doesn't even have to be as powerful as it was in Morrowind and Oblivion, I'd be happy with Destruction just being able to hang with the other schools of magic in Skyrim. Because as it stands right now, it's very very weak.

Please take this into consideration.

Thank you for your time.

Personally I think destruction is fine the way it is. With the augmented perks along with the dual casting/impact perks I have no problem being a powerful destruction mage by dual casting incinerate. Then you add on enchanting with the dual enchantment perk, enchant a hood, robe necklace and ring with cost reduction of both destruction and alteration and I am untouchable.

I don't really understand why people think that you should be able to be a powerul mage with only one skill.

As I stated earlier, anyone with the right Enchanted gear can cast the exact same Destruction spells for the exact same amount of damage, no matter their level of skill in Destruction (without Augmented Flames/Frost/Shock). A mage character who takes these perks only sees a 50% increase in base damage. For a mage that's hard to swallow considering that for example One-Handed damage goes up with perks AND increase in skill. IIRC, having a skill of 100 in One-Handed doubles your base damage, and having 5/5 Armsman doubles it again. Traditionally, mages have been depicted as those who may die when someone sneezes on them, but who put out way more DPS to more enemies than any other build. Right now, I would settle for Destruction merely being on par in terms of damage compared to 1H/2H/Archery. Having 100 Destruction is pointless for anyone who dabbles in Enchanting, and that is just wrong.

ok hrm... I haven't used any of my perk points yet still have them all waiting to be assigned. im just using destruction with it to 100... nothing else, dual casting... Uriel said its taking 5-6 shots, and they have assigned perks, with no perks, and only 100 destruction, with the below gear, its taking me 2-4 shots per enemy depending on range, and # of enemy's in the area. So... now im wondering if something is causing some odd effects by what we have equipped or from the perks we've taken. I've been saving my perk points till i get the majority of skills up to 100, and then i'll decide which to assign them to... Wasn't there a problem with another skill that was causing the damage base to go down when a perk was added to it? I remember something like that.. It didn't show it as being lower or neg, but it still was...

I'm just trying to figure out why someone who's obviously invested more into destruction then me seems to be doing less damage then myself to the enemies.

Well, I haven't done the algebraic number crunching yet, but I know that with 2 Perks in Augmented Shock, and casting Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning or what-have-you, it takes me far more effort (5-6 shots worth) to take down a Dremora Lord, when (like Viede said) my base damage for said spells hasn't increased a bit from when I was a Dunmer with 25 Destruction and no Perks in Augmented Shock. Meanwhile on my other character (a Dunmer Assassin), my 100 in One-handed has doubled in base damage, and then doubled again due to Perks. Thus a battle with the same Dremora Lord takes only about 5 seconds to finish. And if I summon a Storm Atronach, it kills the Dremora Lord with it's lightning with half of the shots as my Master of Destruction can do.

After comparing the two battles, it's obvious to me that Destruction is far weaker than the other Schools of magic. IMHO, this needs to be at least made even.

I understand its weaker then the others, i'm just not sure why we are getting mixed results with the number of attacks... Master Difficulty right? point being, i'd think it would take me more shots then you sense i dont have augmented shock...