recently i saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFpH4jm-QI video (skip to 0:37) and im now worried about what i saw with the perk chart. To me it clearly looks like linear progression.. perks for having 1 strength, 2 strength, 3,4,5. Same with all the other specials, as you work your way down the linear perk tree. Mix that, with the high probability of bobblehead stat boosts and other ways to increase our specials, I imagine late game we'll just have a character with a maxed out perk chart. Is that going to be everyones goal when playing fallout 4 late game? just maxing out our specials so we have 100% completion on our perk chart? No build variety or nothing.. just completionism for the sake of it.

I probaly will go for everything on my first run through to see what it all does. Then when I do a 'roleplay' run through i'll avoid some perks,SPECIAL attributes, weapon types and gear all together.

Nope, you can spend perk points in any order ya like, as long as you have the required special score (heck there is proof right in the video, notice he has bought a rank in the perception 2 perk, but have none in the perception 1 perk)

first off.. youd need like 320-ish levels to max out your characters.. thats much more than fallout 3... second you dont have to take the perks in order.. if you have 10 charisma you can take intimidation the level 10 charisma perk right away sure you can have a maxed out character.. if you want to play the same character for an insanely long time (or you cheat for it) but playing the game normally youll probably be finished way before you come anywhere near maxing a character.

still looks linear to me. straight lines, one direction. NV wasnt perfect but at least we had many perks and they were tied to things like skill levels. Every character I made played very different, and you'd get locked out of perks too if you didnt get them. looks to me with Fallout 4 we're going to end up unlocking everything (or everything we want) at some point.

This^
It's linear only in the sense that they are lined up. You pick them however you want (based on your SPECIAL of course).

A mental illusion due to the design, again you're free to pick any perk in any order as long as you meet requirements, so there is still freedom to design ya character (heck there is even more freedom then what 3/NV had, since the first rank of every perk doesn't have a level requirement)

also the different ranks of perks are additional effects to the perk not just a damage increase.. the gunslinger perk if upgrades increases damage but each rank adds something new to pistols.. like being able to shoot weapons out of enemies hands intantly cripple limbs and have longer range with pistols ect and rank 5 of unarmed is basically paralyzing palm

As said there is actually more room for customizing in fallout 4 than there was in 3.. with the exception that if you level your character to level 320+ youll have unlocked everything.. but that would take alot of grind/work to accomplish without cheating and you could basically make your character good at everything in fallout 3 too if you wanted to.

So, did you get to lvl 270 in Skyrim? You would be in the 30's by the time you max your special stats with no perks.

Do you really think maxing out after 200+ hours in a single playthrough is a big deal?

Do I worry about variation in character builds? Not at all, I think there's going to be plenty of diverse playstyles, my worry with the perk chart is if we'll have more than 70 slots, it would be a shame if the only way modders can add new perks is by using the same slot as an old one.

I imagen mod makers will have to stick to using the magazine mechanic if they wanna add perks.

If you maxed out 3 stats at char creation, it would still take roughly 80-90* levels to take all of the perks under them, if you only took perks related to those attributes.


*this is being generous

Love the fact you can max out. Cause my past experiences I still avoided certain perks cause it wasn't my play style, but now once in awhile it would be nice using different setups if avbl and unlocked.

To me, it looks like what you have in Skyrim. I feel like all this has changed just because of all the crafting in the game now. When I saw the PC in the garage working on his PA, I was thinking...it was like your at the forge in Skyrim.

Never mind the actual mechanics of maxing out a character (which are only possible after an investment of time available, I'm guessing, only to the unemployed and those with time machines)...

Why worry about how others will play the game?

I doubt maxing all perks or even going close to maxing all perks is going to be a issue at all.....my focus isn't maxing all special and maxing all perks....my focus is being a god, and I have a pretty good idea of how I can do that by level 30.....worst case by level 40.

LOL so u didnt unlock everything in NV? or Fallout 3? each of those leveling system were linear too, since u didnt have any that stop u from maxing a skill to unlock the perk. U are just trap on the illusion.

It looks less complicated than having to have multiple things at certain levels to unlock specific perks.

It's almost completely nonlinear, it's just organized by SPECIAL. You can even see in that video, the demo character has the Gun Nut perk without any of the earlier Intelligence perks, and the Commando perk without Gunslinger before it. The only linear thing about it are the ranks to each perk.

As for "maxing out", even if we all do somehow manage to max out the perk chart, the fact that it will take hundreds of hours, can be filled out in any order, and we'll have probably completed the vast majority of quests by then means that everyone is going to have a unique experience and character as they progress through the game.

Because the game is so replayable, instead of trying to max out your character, play different characters with focus on different Specials and make it completely different for each one. Its fun.

Somewhere on here some one broke down the expected time it would take to max everything on the perk chart was a couple thousand hours I think. If I find the thread I'll link it.

Its not completely linear as others have said. You can pick whatever perk you want provided you have the SPECIAL requirements and in some instances level gate requirements. It is completely up to the discretion of the player and that is the perfect outcome. Aside from the level per health question there should not be any issues unless the player decides to make an issue of it. I'm sure some fools will but eh. [censored] em'.

It was 2,500 hours based on an estimate of almost 5 million XP.

I'm more worried about my rent than a chart for some game. Yes, I pre ordered FO4 but there is no way that a chart is gong to be an issue. I have RL things on my mind.

Okay, someone correct me if I'm remembering this wrong:

The REQUIREMENTS are progressive (the first requires 1 in stat, the second requires 2) but you DO NOT NEED to unlock them in that order. If you want to start the game with Int 6 perk, build at Int 6 and choose it right away.

Second, there are not only ten perks per special. Instead, each perk you see there spawns its own little tree (or at least has additional ranks within them) - not only improving efficacy of the first perk, but adding additional bonuses. For example, as you improve your sneak perk, you eventually get light step, and silent running.