Not that I'm aware of, once you have achieved it.

And my point, Lord Hyamentar, is that Vehk likely did not need the faith of the Dunmer people to hold back the moon. I was theorizing that Vehk, being a recognized thief and liar, might well have been exploiting the circumstances to command the Dunmer's respect.

Jeroic puts it well, actually, and without the heretical Vehk-hate to which I am prone.

Dude you just freaked with my brain using my other name.

I don't know if it was the faith but the love that was important, which makes it sweetly ironic, in a storytelling way, that Sul's love for his wife is what eventually brought the moon down.

From the Ehlnofex: an ancient sigil connoting 'royalty', 'starlight', and 'high splendor'. As with most characters of that dangerous language, the sigil CHIM constantly distorts itself. Those scholars that can perceive its shape regard it as a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration.

~ Vehk's teachings

For the sake of that irony, I am willing to drop my theory. Narrative causality above all.

This is what I believe: That Vivec was using CHIM to freeze the moon in place, but the waning of his people's faith/love in him broke his CHIM for a moment (especially since CHIM involves loving yourself and everyone, which is also yourself. His people losing faith in him most likely caused him to lose a little faith in himself as well), causing the moon to fall.

I do not doubt that Vehk had mischievous delights in how he treated his people. Most assuredly he did. But seeing it through the eyes of a god, how could he not? Maybe he needed to be loved. And he exacted that love exactly. Any other other Dunmer would have done the same.

I don't love Vehk, but I'll defend him against naysayers for the sake for it. I can respect him for what he is, one of the most charistmatic and antagonistic gods ever. He [censored] earned it.

He's a thief only symbolically, and lies to tell the truth. That's what poets do. Artists, in general.

Ninja'd on losing CHIM.

I get the impression that some people are too quick to glorify or excuse Vehk.

But then I remember that this is because I am altogether too quick to condemn him, and perceive anything that is the least bit positive as unacceptable.

I'm working on it.

Sorry.

Vehk's a bastard, but he's a letter wrapped in uncertainty. Quick to be praised, quick to be damned. That is his nature; contradiction.

A troll wrapped in uncertainty.

You're not the only one. It's a trend on these boards. (and I'm guilty of following it). On a more serious note, I think he gets his excuses because he's the larger-than-life character that knows too much and always seem to know what he's doing. He never did bad stuff just for the sake of it, so I think that counts too.

Well this conversation has bloomed rather well; Now, what are your thoughts on Dagoth Ur and his true intention, purity, and what really happened between him and the Nerevar?

I believe he isn't evil. AT ALL. In fact I think he was hurt, betrayed, and forsaken by the very people he loved so dearly, for reasons of the Tribunal's corruption.

Evil is a matter of who has what you want.

Also; What parts of Morrowind and which Cities managed to survive both the "Red Year," and the Argonian Invasion?

I view Dagoth Ur much more sympathetically than Vivec. This may be because of a number of reasons, but chief among them, I think, are the facts that he was sold out by his friends and ended up betrayed and alone, that whatever morally dubious acts he committed were in response to aforesaid betrayal and that he dies in the end.

He strikes me, honestly, as more interesting than Vehk, who found the Heart, knifed Nerevar's back and was suddenly everyone's favorite CHIMster.

I agree for the most part; I like Vehk/Vivec. . . But I absolutely despise him for what he did to Dagoth Ur. Yet, my favorite is downright, Sotha Sil. Followed By Dagoth Ur.

Is there any understanding of Sotha Sil's personality? His emotions and attitudes? Character in general?

He was a great teacher, according to 2920. He had a fascination for Dwemeri machinations. Other than that, I know nothing.

And that fascinates me. Sotha Sil is by far my favorite of what we might call the Old Dunmer.

Exactly the very reason I love that character so much; I am glad another shares such a viewpoint towards such an enigmatic, mysterious, and interesting characters.

I have also come into conclusion, Sehk, or Sotha Sil, before usurping the power of Lorkhan's heart was in Love with Almalexia. I don't know if this is common knowledge, however there are strong references in some of the little lore that speaks of Sotha Sil's past; This specific part was more or less, right after Sotha had tried to teach a kid a certain form of magic and the kid failed, then he get's news Almalexia had arrived, worn-down and battered.

He meets her, and her hair is wet and she has a blanket or large cloth wrapped around her to warm her up and I believe it mentioned at this part Sotha Sil thought Almalexia was becoming more and more beautiful each time Sotha got a chance to see her.

that happened post-godhood, and you're of course right. Everyone loved Almalexia, the Sermons make explicit mention of her trysts with Seht and Vehk in addition to her marriage to Nerevar.

that's what I thought. Also, as for Sotha Sil, I see it as more of a traditional love rather then lusting-love. If you know the difference. Besides, the story between Vehk, Seht, Voryn, and Almalexia, their friendship and love is extremely tragic and rather twisted, and yet quite beautiful.

I always felt that vehk's retelling of history was at its cruelest when he writes himself onto Ayem's bedchambers. Just a window into the jealousy of mortal Vehk for his Hortator.

mhm.

Sotha Sil would have been my favorite character had he been more developed. However, he is fine the way he is. We aren't supposed to know much about him.

Vivec mentions in the Lessons that "Almalexia was with a pair of lovers. Seht had divided himself again." So yes, everyone loved Almalexia.

Nerevar didn't betray Voryn. Voryn had become corrupted by the Heart, and refused to hand over The Tools. Nerevar had no other choice but to slay him.
On the other hand Vivec made up stories of him being the Devil. He betrayed another friend, but it was the best thing he could have done given the situation.

Note on Sotha Sil: He was a Psijic.

I always wondered if that ever caused conflict between Sotha Sil and Vivec. The Psijic Order and the followers of the Psijic Endeavor view the other as wrongheaded.