I understand, but to program NPCs to do such a thing isn't really all that difficult.

Giving Dragons / other enemies a "Threat Level" and normal NPCs a "Confidence Level" such as above would fix that.

Say... Dragon is threat level 10 (max,) ... the only NPCs that would have a Confidence level of 10 within a town / city would be Guards or Followers. Anything below 10 would tell all of the other NPCs to run away in a scattered / opposite direction for at least a safe distance away or into some significant shelter or something.

That is just unrealistic and I think that you are expecting too much. Think about the following: Who has got a linear behaviour to threats? Only trained professionals do and are capable of estimating a threat level. However, common people will do the most illogical things when under pressure. Unless they do regular "dragon drills" will they act stupid.

The people in Skyrim then do not have telephones, sirens or any other, half-decent form of telecommunication. They have no training, no drills and use buckets as toilets. In the old times, before people invented telecommunication, did they do unbelievable things and considered them to be quite normal. Today we have radio, TV and the Internet to keep us informed - the best they had were rumours. Your expectations in their behaviour is too high.

I saw a chicken charge a dragon once...that kind of sums it up.

It is very annoying when a dragon flies into Riverwood and chows down on a nice nasty Alvor... ugh I hate that! If I was a shopkeeper or something and I saw a dragon I would run as far as I could away from the location... unless if I was a dragonborn shopkeeper.

Ha i had an ancient dragon attack someone else on the other side of town and thought crap let that be a guard

@xtheeglovex...Yes, good point.

In the lovely world of Skyrim we can become wandering woodchoppers, itinerant alchemists, master smiths...but we can't open up a shop to sell general goods and patent pharmaceuticals...man, I have a whole house load of cr*p that's just dying for a roadside stall. And why can't I plant a shrubbery?

You can act like the A.I. can't get any better in this game, and that the way it is is realistic for the time period, and I will have to disagree with you. You are acting like these are real people and most of them are dumb so therefore they would attack a dragon even though they are under-equipped and scared out of their mind. I'm sorry sir I just don't see your logic there at all. You argue about realism and yet the things you have been proposing to explain the bad A.I. are unrealistic. That's just my opinion. You can have yours. The fact is this whole thread isn't that big of a deal. I don't think the way the A.I. deals with dragon attacks is a gamebreaker in any way. All I was saying was I think the A.I. could be improved upon for more realism, and what I proposed isn't that hard to do I'm sorry it just isn't. I guess our ideas of what would be considered realism as far as fighting a dragon in a fantasy world such as on the planet Nirn differs from one another, which is acceptable. I just disagree with you is all. Have a nice day.

Edit: I will just add... I can guarantee you if you drop a dragon into any city anywhere on Earth, around 99% of people will flee, except a few that have guns, and even most with firearms will run away as well. So even in our world of sirens, telephones and toilets, your logic just seems a little off. Sorry...

I have seen maybe a half dozen dragon attacks in towns...including one time where the dragon perched on the roof of the Jarl's house in Winterhold. Never seen one kill any NPC's. the good townsfolk always deliver a red assed beat down to the flying lizard.

Your welcome.

Sometimes I have had to go to a couple different places to get the dragon to show up. That also could have been because I did not wait long enough the first time.

you may have to "enable" them as well as they may be alive, but other people can behave like they are dead.
e.g. If, for example, Adrianne Avenicci were to die and you resurrect her, Ulfberth War-Bear will answer "Since my wife died...." when you ask him about where he gets his weapons from.

Yes, people do sometimes behave very strangely, especially under stress. However, primitive interpersonal communication is no explanation for why the average citizen would grab a dagger or broom and advance on a 30 foot, 10 ton fire breathing monster.

The aforementioned gut check vs threat level is a crude, but satisfactory method of more realistically controlling an npc's behavior. It is already implemented with adversaries that become injured.

They could include a small random modifier (+/- x%) that would allow for uncommon bravery/foolishness.

I agree that regardless of their reaction it shouldn't preclude them from being killed either way.

This. If someone was attacked in times square, and the attacker had a gun, most people would run, but a few "Good" Citizens would probably try to stop the attacker, and lose their lives. Others might fall to the ground and cover their head, but may still die. I find the way that NPCs act is quite realistic.

it isn't the fact that dragons kill NPC's. IT IS THE FACT THAT UNARMED OLD GRANDMAS WILL CHARGE A DRAGON TO BATTLE IT WITH NOUGHT BUT FISTS!

People should die from dragon attacks. But random NPC with no weapon(Modesi, looking at you), should not stand there in the middle of the market looking up at a dragon with his bare fists while the dragon sits on top of a building poring fire down into the streets. He should poop himself and run. If I was in the riften market armed with nothing or a small dagger and I 'heard' a dragon I would stop doing what I'm doing, look around, and start making my way to the sewer entrance. If a dragon just showed up in town without warning and started burning everything I would JUMP off the railings at the market into the river below. Then make my way to the sewer entrance. Sewers because they are made of stone and below ground level.

Random people should have a courage rating slightly higher than a deer.

I find that autosaves usually saves the game before the travel
I remember because I've experienced crashes after I fast-travelled, only to find that I haven't travelled upon loading

No, it is not realistic to try to fight the SWAT team with only a goddang dagger

Perhaps if you're a Master of Gun Kata, of if you're Neo who sees the world in green 0s and 1s, or maybe if you're the Monkey King with the ridiculous dual-tail headgear, or perhaps you're simply Dante with Ebony and Ivory. THEN you'd stand a chance, but if you're just a petty newbie at robbing edlerlies, you won't even try to move an inch when you're facing dangerous threat, especially if said threat is a legendary threat rumored to have sacked a freaking town

It is not only utterly unrealistic, it is ridiculous almost beyond repair.



A WILD ANCIENT DRAGON HAS APPEARED!

------------------------------------
What should a petty 70-years old farmer do?

> FIGHT LIKE A DELUSIONAL SUPERMAN
Run like an elderly should if he's got teh brainz to the nearest safe point

------------------------------------
ANCIENT DRAGON USED THU'UM!
ATTACKED HALF TIMES!

Petty 70-years old farmer has died

------------------------------------
Dovahkiin used FACEPALM

A dragon attacked while I was in Rorikstead. While I was hacking away at it one of the town kids wandered up beside me to gawk at the dragon. I didn't think the town would appreciate my accidentally decapitating the poor child, so I stopped swinging my axe and tried to move away ... at which point the dragon chowed down on me. I had to laugh. Brave, or really stupid, kids in Skyrim.

In another town one of the NPCs I know from previous experience is a mini-quest character was toasted during a visit by the neighbourhood dragon. Haven't yet, as my current character, visited the spot where the quest gets triggered and I'm curious to see what happens when I do (I assume no quest.).

As this is my first post, I just wanted to add that I've really enjoyed this game.

The AI hasn't really improved since Morrowind. Schedules have been added but NPCs and creatures still make just as "dumb" choices as they did back then. They still don't look where they're running. They still happily commit suicide by hopelessly attacking an enemy they don't stand a chance of defeating. Also keep in mind that BGS had a valid excuse in the number of available cycles being limited when they made Morrowind, but the same isn't true in Skyrim. There's nothing preventing an NPC AI routine from checking the number and type of enemies and running away scared if they're above his level of combat ability.

What this means is of course that there's also really no reason to expect the AI to be any better in the next game, particularly not if nobody calls them on their sloppy work to that extent in Skyrim.

This has got to be the most ridiculous attempt at after-rationalizing that I've seen for a long, long time. Just because people don't do the right thing every time does not mean they'd all suddenly stop caring about self-preservation. What you're saying is that because people are dumb, it's not a problem that the AI is ridiculousle braindead and has all the NPCs throw themselves onto the grenade. There's no way in hell you'd ever see women, old men, and soft city dwellers calmly stand in front of a dragon and get burned to death, and thinking otherwise is like thinking that trench warfare wasn't so scary and that he who says there aren't atheists in fox holes is just a wimpy little girl.

Going against that sort of enemy is tantamount to dying and death is generally scary to all but the most hardened warriors. Not having any damn NPCs run away screaming like they damn well should is simply moronic to look at and has absolutely zero chance of happening outside of bizarro world. No offense, but that's how it is. I realise that you really want BGS to have made a brilliant AI, but they didn't. They [censored] up and instead gave us Morrowind-AI with schedules and better patfhfinding.

You think it's unrealistic that people will spend a fraction of a second pondering "can I take on that obviously hostile enemy (or group of enemies)?" while you don't think it's unrealistic that nobody actually flees? Have you ever actually seen people responding to any kind of incident? Flight is a natural response to any feeling of danger. Fight is usually a distant second resort, something you do if you can't run but not something you're going to do right away.

And having a threat level that can be matched with an NPCs confidence or what have you does not mean the response has to be entirely linear. It's so very easy to add a random factor to simulate that maybe the NPC is too dumb or too brave to recognize the impending death centence. All it takes to implement a much more convincing response to the mythical enemy of doom is the will to try. Unfortunately, BGS lacked that will.

Edit: And then I moved on to read page 2 of this topic and saw no less than two other users say exactly the same as I had just typed. Darn. Well, maybe I'll learn to read the entire topic before responding some day. Maybe.

[img]http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/imageshare/images/1642607-1325674515.jpg[/img]

(from Johnathan Grey Carter & Cory Rydell)

All is said.

I've just always attributed it to the fact that these are the sons and daughters of Skyrim, and they just don't have it in them to run from a fight.

Whatever it takes to immerse yourself in a buggy world. Where people get stuck in the "raise both my arms up and down" drunk animation? Or where people drink and eat invisible food. Or like we are talking here, where even the young and elderly will run TOWARDS a dragon without a decent weapon. I'm still proudest to be a son of Morrowind to be honest. They keep making games worse in so many ways, yet the graphics are getting better and better. Big deal. I'm old school. I still think Final Fantasy VI is the best game ever and the graphics are horrible, especially now. But I can get immersed in that world, because the world works.

Or DL a mod that does it.

You are wrong. First of all, I am not arguing. I am telling you how it is. You only expect people to run away so that your quest givers and other NPCs, who are important to you, do not die. I understand your need for having them around, but it does not help the discussion on how realistic your demand actually is.

You then make a good point, but take it wrong. You say that the people with weapons would not run away from a dragon attack - what do you think swords, bows and daggers are? Most NPCs do carry weapons. People of today would try to fight dragons with guns (if they have one at home) instead of putting their own safety first.

People of today ride motorbikes without wearing a helmet and cars without putting a seatbelt on. We are smarter today than we were in the past, but you cannot win over stupid.

You find a chicken trying to fight a dragon unrealistic? I had a dog, who tried to fight motorbikes, cars and tractors as well as the mail man.

I will not argue about this with you or else the discussion itself ends stupid.

I like the fact that people fight the dragons; it shows how the people of Skyrim are courageous, even the children.

You really should have quit while you were behind. I said, "even most with firearms will run away as well." So your wrong that I supposedly said "people with weapons would not run away", because I said the opposite. Also you are comparing knives with guns? Why? Because you say they are both weapons? You are very confused buddy. I also don't care if some quest givers die you are making assumptions. I just think some of them die unnecessarily due to poor A.I. and unrealistic A.I..

So in other words, you think that even today, if a mormon village was attacked by a dragon and all they had were a couple pitchforks and a butter knife and their fists, they would fight not run? LOL first you show us you can't read what others say correctly, now I'm not sure if you can even read what you are writing yourself, because if you could you would see the flaws and mistakes in your words sir.