Dual casting with mages : V

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:13 am

I was thinking about making a mage, which is something I rarely play with in TES games, and have barely played with in Skyrim. Before I make one though, I need to clarify something about dual casting. Is there a substantial benefit to dual casting with restoration and destruction, or is it better to just cast two of the same spell with both hands instead? Anyone who can list the pros and cons would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :biggrin:

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:47 am

Dual casting a spell is more effective than casting it twice at once, but it also takes up more magicka. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but I believe it's something like 0.8x more powerful for 0.2x more magicka. If you're any kind of a self-respecting mage, the extra magicka cost is worth it.

EDIT: I got my figures mixed up. It's 0.2x more powerful for 0.8x more cost. It's still worth it.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:02 pm

Dual casting a fireball is more powerful than firing two individual fire balls but yes the magicka cost is more as well. With the right gear magicka ceases to be an issue. Do the college quests right away for one of the best mage robes in the game. If you take the time to level enchanting to 100 you can make some really powerful mage gear with double enchants. It is possible to reduce magicka use to 0 although I never take it that far.

Dual casting can also stun creatures if you take the perk for that.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:13 am

Dual casting a spell is more effective than casting it twice at once, but it also takes up more magicka. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but I believe it's something like 0.8x more powerful for 0.2x more magicka. If you're any kind of a self-respecting mage, the extra magicka cost is worth it.

EDIT: I got my figures mixed up. It's 0.2x more powerful for 0.8x more cost. It's still worth it.

I find the opposite. Not worth it since it costs 4 times more magicka than the benefit gained. Plus, if you cast two spells, especially offensive, there are two chances for secondary effects to take hold (especially good for frost spells and their slow effect). The only reason to take it for destruction is the Impact Perk.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Thanks guys. But what about restoration? Is that worth dual casting as well?

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:34 am

Thanks guys. But what about restoration? Is that worth dual casting as well?

That depends. If you plan on using it in combat, then that extra health can be a lifesaver. I don't think it effects turn undead spells.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:33 pm

Dual casting is essential when using destruction magic, due to the "Impact" perk. If you are planning on building a pure mage, take an Altmer and never take health upon level up. This will ensure approx. a magicka pool of 700+ at level 40, with appropriate clothing and buffs. With "Impact" and dual casting fireballs you don't need anything else.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:11 am

Ninja'd, damn it.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:14 am

Okay that sums it up for me mostly. Thanks for the help!

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:54 am

Healing does affect Draugr and undead, unless they resist it. You can heal them during combat and they can die from it.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:08 am

Thing about restoration - I've never taken it for dual cast, being constantly in combat all the time I had to keep one hand free for offence.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:13 am

Dual casting is essential when using destruction magic, due to the "Impact" perk. If you are planning on building a pure mage, take an Altmer and never take health upon level up. This will ensure approx. a magicka pool of 700+ at level 40, with appropriate clothing and buffs. With "Impact" and dual casting fireballs you don't need anything else.

Actually that brings me to another question. If I plan on playing on normal, is this a good strategy? If I never level up my health will I have any trouble going through the game?

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:14 pm

I find the opposite. Not worth it since it costs 4 times more magicka than the benefit gained. Plus, if you cast two spells, especially offensive, there are two chances for secondary effects to take hold (especially good for frost spells and their slow effect). The only reason to take it for destruction is the Impact Perk.

That's true, but between a deep magicka pool and cost reduction perks, the extra magicka cost is negligent. As for the extra chance of secondary effect, most foes will have been killed too quickly for them to matter.

EDIT: ^On my current mage, I've put points into my health, as sometimes restoration doesn't cut it. I believe I've put ~8-~10 points in so far, but I'd have to check. Magicka is rarely a problem. I'm playing on Adept.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:37 am

Well it depends it's useful on lower levels when you can take out enemies quickly like spamming flames continously but later it's hardly worth it since destruction lose a lot of it's power and it just zap your magicka fast so i usually prefer a battlemage build with a blade in my hand but of course if dual works fine for you go with.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:01 pm

Healing does affect Draugr and undead, unless they resist it. You can heal them during combat and they can die from it.

Not Healing, but Turn Undead.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:04 am

Actually that brings me to another question. If I plan on playing on normal, is this a good strategy? If I never level up my health will I have any trouble going through the game?

Well, I only play the game on Master and levelling this way is not overly difficult. Make sure to get that "Fus" early on, and never let things get anywhere close to you. It can be difficult early on, but once you get past level 20 you can pretty much one-shot everything in the game and go through a dungeon in 10 minutes (Incinerate dual cast + Impact + Conjuration and a companion etc..)

Edit: Seriously, people respond promptly here....must be the skooma...

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:04 pm

Thanks guys. But what about restoration? Is that worth dual casting as well?

You can make your turn undead spells last 2.2 times as long for 2.8 times the magicka. As far as healing goes, dual casting is a very magicka inefficient way to heal yourself.

Perhaps the best dual casting perk is Illusion since it increases the level of creature affected by the spell. Destruction impact spamming is also very powerful but many consider it to be OP and cheap and somewhat boring.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:24 am

Not Healing, but Turn Undead.

You can cast healing on undead. A message comes up "Draugr resisted Healing Hands" so it is a natural assumption a powerful enough healing spell can kill zombies or Draugr.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:06 am

That's true, but between a deep magicka pool and cost reduction perks, the extra magicka cost is negligent. As for the extra chance of secondary effect, most foes will have been killed too quickly for them to matter.

EDIT: ^On my current mage, I've put points into my health, as sometimes restoration doesn't cut it. I believe I've put ~8-~10 points in so far, but I'd have to check. Magicka is rarely a problem. I'm playing on Adept.

True, in the end, it doesn't cost THAT much extra. Secondary effects stack, so extra fire damage is doubled. Stamina/magicka/damage as well.

Even as a pure mage, I don't take Impact (thus, Dual casting destruction) because the game becomes extremely tedious.

Ultimately, if one does take DC/Impact, you can still cast two spells individually; you just have to stagger your left/right attacks.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:40 pm

Alright well thanks for all the information guys! I was planning on making a destruction/conjuration based mage. Any tips for a mage beginner before I go off to play?

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:17 am

You can make your turn undead spells last 2.2 times as long for 2.8 times the magicka. As far as healing goes, dual casting is a very magicka inefficient way to heal yourself.

Perhaps the best dual casting perk is Illusion since it increases the level of creature affected by the spell. Destruction impact spamming is also very powerful but many consider it to be OP and cheap and somewhat boring.

Ah, so that's how DCing Turn Undead works. And I agree. Illusion is the best DCing school.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:36 pm

Alright well thanks for all the information guys! I was planning on making a destruction/conjuration based mage. Any tips for a mage beginner before I go off to play?

Yes, when you see a bear just run.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:23 am

Alright well thanks for all the information guys! I was planning on making a destruction/conjuration based mage. Any tips for a mage beginner before I go off to play?

lvl conjuration+getting magicka early will make it a lot easier, Altmer is pretty solid for this build since you can spend a few points in Health too and still have high magicka and low level fire spells do stay useful a long way if you get the fire damage increase perk.

» Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:22 am

With restoration I don't really worry about duel casting since i can take the perk which makes resto spells 50% more effective at level 20 anyway, same cost 50% more health and one hand to cast is the way to go for me.