I've been looking up what levels illusion magic is effective to, and the same thing keeps popping up: in order to keep illusion magic viable in higher levels (50+) you need to couple it with alchemy in order to further fortify it. I have one thing to say to that...

da [censored]??

What is the point of this school of magic then, when nearly every spell's effect (bar clairvoyance) can be produced via potions/poisons. Why not just have alchemy???

The only argument I can muster up is that the magic gets AoE effectiveness. But wait... at the higher levels that require alchemy, they lose effectiveness as well because they aren't affected by dual casting (is this a bug)?

Soooo basically Bethesda says, "hey, put all this time and all these points into this tree so you can use illusion on anybody, but in about 20 levels you'll regret it."

I want illusion magic. I have a problem with this.

/endrant

It's actually pretty effective well into the higher levels if you get the appropriate perks. It's slightly broken in so far as the master spells are actually less powerful than the expert/adept tiers, because they don't benefit from the dual casting, but that's the only real problem, I have an illusion mage over level 50 and the only thing my spells don't work on are named bosses (and that's just occasionally).

Also,, the only school which really needs buffs from Alchemy to be effective is Destruction.

Pretty sure dragons aaren't affected by many illusion spells either. But I would say that if used correctly, Illusion can be one of the mostly powerful skills in the game.

Oh yeah, them too, sorry, kind of thought it went without saying

I don't know where you read that, but it's complete bull.

I've got a Nightblade who's 100 in Illusion and I've never had to use potions to fortify it.

Edit: Also, enemies (except for a few bosses) stop leveling after 50. That's the soft-cap.

Also, this is a roleplaying game. Various character types do not do alchemy. Pretty simple.

In other words, a GOOD RPG will in fact duplicate effects between different skills in various ways so that different character types are viable regardless of any player's personal preference.

with the dual casting perk it makes illusion spells 2x stronger so I guess they are not using dual casting

Completely wrong, a perked illusionist can hit up a mayhem which hits every enemy in the dungeon you're in (I do it all the time). The vampire buff makes it easy to reach the level 50 cap with mayhem, the necromage perk is needed to use mayhem on draugr deathlords.

You can dual cast any of the spells (perked) to hit any enemy that isn't immune to illusion, frenzy has an AoE effect.

Poisons on the other hand, can't get anywhere near the level cap of 50.

If youre a necromage vampire with a well perked out illusion tree, there isnt a thing I have found yet I cant frenzy.
It works on other schools too.
I can thrall master necromancers.
Its great.

Illusion is quite powerful, if you utilise it well.

Unless you are talking about lockpicking.

On topic: Illusion is powerful enough as others have stated. OP, your info is incorrect.

If invisibility and calm isn't OP I don't know what is. Paralyze? Shields? Almost everything can become OP.

Hmm you don't have to couple it with alchemy at all, dual cast and the right side of the tree, kindred etc boost its effectivness, also the fact that I was a vampire with necromage means most if not all enemies succumbed to my mind altering trickery.

Necromaging?

this leaves a valid point although skyrim has duplicate effects they are balanced really poorly look at the master spells for example almost every single master spell is worse than the expert spells and look at the dead thrall spell you cannot dead thrall dragur/animals while the other necromancy spells can and it has a level cap of 40 while it is the MASTER spell

Thanks for the replies. Just to be clear, I don't want to be a vampire and I have no desire to delve into necromancy... I just like illusion. So now I have a couple questions:

Are the master spells worth investing in (cost reduction perk)?--are they powerful enough to where dual-casting isn't needed? Or will I really never use these spells?

Is the necromancy perk in resto tree helpful? Or will it be overkill with fully spec'd illusion tree (since someone mentioned the soft-cap of 50)?

And what's this business about poisons having a level cap? I can usually calm/frenzy poison anyone I can with a spell. With the extra effect perk that evens out the AoE effect in my mind (which, mind you, becomes obsolete later on)

the master spells become useless after a certain level due to not being able to dual cast the only one I find useful is call to arms
the Negromage perk is useful If your a vampire ( i suggest illusion vampires due to the calm spells you just use calm and sneak to feed really simple) or want dead thralls/necromancy
I don't understand the potions level cap either

The poisons you can make with a perked out tree and enchanted apparel, aren't strong enough against stronger enemies (fear and frenzy poisons), unless you use the restoration glitch, but what's the point.

I think you would struggle to use the master level spells without being a vampire, being a vampire just takes the level it works at (perked) over 50 for mayhem and hysteria, harmony is stuck at 49 for people unfortunately. You need the necromage perk and vampirism (which compliment each other hugely in many other ways ha) for mayhem/harmony/hysteria to work against deathlords, level 43.

But the other spells can all be dual cast and will work on every enemy you come across that isn't immune, if you have the perks. You don't need the necromage perk if you don't use the master spells, dual casting the other spells is more than enough.

But remember how stupidly massive the range of mayhem is, if you get it working well you can clear out a dungeon standing at the entrance ha.

First off, nice pic

Second, illusion won't be worthless eventually? I mean I can always use master spells until they lose effectiveness, then go on to dual cast the rest of the game? that's a pretty sweet deal. I just feel [censored] sinister if I was a vampire. Like heartless and evil. Although I guess my assassin doesn't exactly disagree with that... should I just cave in and "accidentally" get infected?

I'd go for every perk in the illusion tree, none are worthless unlike some other perks. Then the illusion spells will always work dual cast, they are magicka thirsty though.

If you're a vampire, definitely get the necromage perk, it raises the level for the illusion spells and it compliments vampirism hugely (check my sig if you didn't know).

Well you could look as your vampire as good, he uses his powers for good, only feeds on the blood of friends who allow him (followers). But also your character is an assassin?! So he isn't exactly law abiding ha.

for my all-powerful hybrid, illusion is a great magic skill addition.

if you put about 8 or so wisely chosen perks in illusion you can control the battles in very powerful and fun ways.