Can someone (preferably a Stormcloak supporter) please.... pleassse explain to me why I just got a 40 septim bounty in Eastmarch for using Fus Ro Dah on Elenwen at High Hrothgar. And can someone please explain why Ulfric and Galmar came rushing to her rescue? I know it's game mechanics, but now I'm wondering if it's a bug or intentional.

As annoying as it is, it's game mechanics as you've said. It's the same as why do you get a bounty for killing Stormcloaks on the road when not in a mission? You are at war with them (if playing with the Imperial Legion) so bounty shouldn't happen, yet it does in some situations.

You attacked someone who wasn't attacking you, hence the bounty. And that usually make other npcs attack you, since their AI apparently decides that you are a threat and should be put down. (For the same reason you get a bounty if you attack a Thalmor patrol first, but if you talk to them and let them question you about Thalmor worship, they will attack you, no bounty.)

I don't know how the npcs' disposition to one another affects the whole thing, though. I know that Elenwen is tagged as Ulfric's enemy. One might think this would cause him to side with you instead of defending her (or stay out of it - no, I take that back, Ulfric never stays out of a fight, ever!), but, again, we're talking about Skyrim AI here...

Yes the game mechanics leave something to be desired. On one playthrough, Delphine had just finished telling me how the Thalmor were the Blades big enemy. We go from Riverwood to Whiterun and meet a Thalmor patrol, so my char goads them into striking the first blow and low and behold Delphine starts wailing on her !

That is weird as I am not pledged to either side, (no I didn't even deliver that rock thing to the dude in Whiterun as using Live A New Life mod) and yet I murder Imp's and Stormies alike, no bounty as long as I get every last one.

Like so many others I know about the Dossier and thought that it had something to do with Ulfric and Galmar trying to bumrush me for assaulting their "sworn enemy". I guess I maybe be wrong. I'll have to go to a save where I supported the Stormcloaks and test this out. Unless someone here is willing.

Beth got sloppy with the Civil War factions. For unknown reasons, Stormcloaks are included in Imperial Hold crime factions, and the reverse holds true for Stormcloak-controlled areas.



It gets even more jarring when you come across Legionnares battling the Stormcloaks, and both sides turn on you for attacking either party.

The bounty always disappear when you kill the "last witness".


I can't imagine this has anything to do with it. Pure game mechanics, I'd say.

I've seen Ulfric attack Imperial guards on sight. Of course, I couldn't help, since it gave me a bounty - and since I didn't intend to kill every single npc in Ivarstead, that wouldn't go away, either.

Normally, Ulfric and Galmar will attack Tullius, Elenwen, and Rikke on sight, but during this quest all negotiators are put in a special faction that allies everyone together, thus why they attacked you.

They will be removed when the quest stops running, which will be when you call the dragon in Whiterun and fight it with Balgruuf/Hrongar/Vignar.

Explains it. Too bad they forgot to put enemy soldiers in that faction as well. I blamed temporary amnesia when Ulfric attacked the Ivarstead guards. "Truce? What truce? I remember no such thing. I'm having fun!"

I'm also annoyed that I can't off the Penitus Oculatus guys hanging around in Dragon Bridge, even after a Stormcloak victory.

Well, the Imperials don't seem to mind. Interesting....

I did it once but I think I had to make Maro non-essential with a console command. It didn't seem right to be taking Haafingar for the SCs while also leaving an Imperial intelligence outpost active in the hold.

But I felt bad, because I'd already done the Destroy the DB quest for Maro so he thought of me as a friend. To the point where I got a letter regarding the money he left me in his will approximately 0.0006 seconds after killing him and walking out of the building.

Hmm... I wonder if there's a way to mod the PO banners on the building so they are disabled at a certain point, like when you start the Liberation of Haafingar. I don't think the PO agents ever come out of the building once the DB questline is done, removing the banners would make it seem like they'd withdrawn from the area. If you never went in the building you wouldn't know the difference.


The Legion and the PO are two completely separate factions that don't intersect at all. Nothing you do with regard to one of them has any bearing on your relationship with the other. It makes no sense, but there it is... necessary I guess to keep people from complaining that joining the Stormcloaks locked them out of the Destroy the DB quest, or that joining the DB locked them out of joining the Legion.

Beth could have resolved this absurdity with a little creative thinking. Surely there'd be someone on the Stormcloak side interested in seeing the DB gone from Skyrim, or is all that rot about honor nothing but hot air?

but you can kill his guard. I think he has an essential tag due to the Dark Brotherhood questline even after you destroy them.

And yeah I also got a bounty in Eastmarch for hitting Elenwen. So I waited until the MQ and CW were over and went back. Happened to catch her walking outside after I killed all the thalmor. Oddly enough you can attack them all without a bounty EVEN if they did not attack you first. I was able to kill her that time as she was no longer essential.

You didn't let Ulfric do it? For shame.

No, Maro becomes killable. Elenwen actually steps outside?

Yep love provoking the Thalmor into a fight...

Only if you join the DB. He's essential until/unless you start the Hail Sithis! quest. If you don't join them but want to kill him for RP purposes in the CW you have to use a console command.


I did not know this either, but then when I've gone back and killed her I've never waited until after the MQ was over. I'll have to try that on my next character. Maybe she's programmed to go back to the Embassy after Helgen and never leave there until after the MQ is done, unless she goes to HH for Season Unending.