Since April '07, I've read these forums. At first I was very optimistic, then shaken a bit, still optimistic, up to today... Still optimistic.
Along the way I said my "take" on the game as it was learned about ~and along the way I've seem to have collected a rep as a "hater"
[falsely IMO].

The topic is Fallout3's #1 gameplay peeve. You are asked to post your personal top peeve about a purely gameplay related issue, in the hopes that this thread might be looked over [later] as a gauge of what turned some folks off in the game ~ideally with an explanation by you of how best to change it (within reason), in your opinion.

People might think you are a hater because you have been making the same argument for years. And you just did again.

My biggest peeve is two biggest peeves:

-I'd like to see SPECIAL have a greater impact on how the character interacts with the game. This is fairlye asy to fix if they do it from the ground up, and that is why I'm hoping it's going to be better next time.
-I'd like to see fundamental improvement in dialogue, including true consequences in the dialogue options, and a better implementation of use of stats in dialogue.

Dialogue is the biggest problem IMO. Its all flat and boring. Which is a dissapointment a mere year after a game like Mass Effect. 3 gameplays of that and I was still listening to half the conversations. I didn't even listen/read half the stuff in FO3 on my 1st playthrough. And I can't stand listening to Moira, why is she the loudest thing in the game? Explosions are quieter.

I love FO3, best game I have played in years. Not saying it is better than FO1 or FO2, two of my all time favorites, but as good in a different way.

That said, I think there is room for improvement, and some real value in listing the game play issues we would most like to see changed.

I agree with Kjarista about Special. I want the old Special back. Bethesda has had an annoying tendency, including in their own games (I have played all four TES games) to make character creation more and more bland and homogenious--perhaps because they hate the thought that a newbie could create a hard-to-play character. Bring us back a Special which really differentiated your characters!

I don't know if this is what the Gizmo meant by game play--but I would also really like to restore the more extensive ending with a fuller discussion of the consequences of the players' deeds. I mean GNS radio did some of this character recognition and was fun--but provided no omniscient forward look.

That is indeed what I meant by gameplay.

Maybe people see you as a "hater" because it seems to them that you are constantly ragging on this game.

My biggest pet peeve with FO3 is the slideshow at the end of the game, but that's not really "purely gameplay related" so I'll go with one of the other things that bothers me a lot. Stimpack abuse. This is broken, there should be something to discourage healing to full, while in the process of eating an Assault Rifle burst.

Nope, I'll duke it out with Gizmo about FP/RT vs ISO/TB, but I agree with him on most everything else.

I COMPLETELY agree that there definitely should have been more depth to the characters - as in KOTOR and Mass Effect. I would have really loved to have more and more information uncovered about certain key characters.

Is that it? That primary stats aren't more important and dialog trees should be deeper?
That is the list of gameplay peeves you've got?

Well, let me try and give this another kick.
Some people have a problem with the Local Map and the lack of z-axis on it.
Some people have a serious issue with the Invisible Walls.
I'd like for there to be more options in Melee/Unarmed combat. Not necessarily body part targetting, but something.
The scope on rifles needs to be corrected.
Undiscovered (outlined) triangles in the HUD compass should be toggle-able in the gameplay menu.
There's perhaps a few too many skill points available in this game.

By the end of the game i would always be carrying around 15-20 different weapons that were all viable to kill my target. There was no penalty in doing so. How about some sort of weapon slot system? Like 10 weaps... or have classes of weapons... e.g. melee weap slot, sidearm slot, blade slot, rifle slot, secondary rifle slot, auxiliary, grenade, mine, etc. Or use a slot system like The Witcher (not saying this isn't broken as well), or give some penalty for carrying too many weapons, or some buff for carrying as few weapons as possible? Yes we should be allowed choice and the ability to play how we want, but all challenge leaves the game when gun choice is purely cosmetic rather than game affecting.

(But do keep the ability for a player to customized the keyboard 1-9 to do whatever they wish, but don't make it so that i am literally a walking 20 person army of weapons. Give me a reason to want companions. IMHO companions are useless except for hoarding clipboards and empty nuka colas.)

Also making the pip-boy pause the game (as it already does), but not actually allow you to do anything without then leaving the pip-boy and showing the animation (e.g. applying stimpacks, switching weapons, taking jet) such that those actions take place in REAL-TIME, and therefore have a consequence for when you choose to do them. Obviously this would required Beth to invest in some good animators...

Nonsensical dialouge, example;

"Hi Lucy, yeah you'r families dead."

"What about my brother??"

"Isn't that a bit specific Lucy? What are you some kind of inbred?"

"No, i mean did you find his corpse!?"

At which point i wanted to utilise my 100 speach, Pre-war business wear and high charisma. However there wasn't even a speach check option.

While I prefer TB/ISO over RT/FPS, I can have it either way.

Kjarista hit it right on the head. Those have got to be my biggest peeves with the game.

As for SPECIAL:
There's a great mod I'm playing with, called the Closer to Classics Mod. http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2686

It increases Perk Rate to 2 levels, reintroduces Traits, and reworked a lot of the existing Perks to resemble the Perks from the previous games but still optimized for FPS play.

It just pains me to think - why wasn't it like this in the first place?

I'm hoping now that they've introduced newcomers to the basics of SPECIAL, that they'll make a more advanced version in future installments of the game. Because as this mod proves, it is possible. Just think, the game will become more challenging, they can do away with the level cap (because at Level 20, you still wouldn't have an overpowered character), and people would be able to make truly unique characters that would have different playing experiences.

I think this is one of the great games, and this is from someone who loved FO 1 and 2 and still loves tb games, but SPECIAL does not have enough of an impact. Most perks require 4-6 points in an attribute to use, meaning almost all perks will be available to all players. Kudos for getting rid of gifted as an option (bobbleheads pretty much replaced that) and to different opportunites of using abilities and skills in diaglogue.

Yes, yes. We got that earlier - deeper dialog trees. More impact from stats/skills on dialog options (Incidentally, there are a lot of these - but I do agree that implementation could have been improved). It's in the list - let's not keep beating the same point over and over again. (Personally, I think a lot of the dialog is well done - but I definitely agree that it could be improved)

Seriously, are we trying to figure out how to improve this game or are we just going to sit around and poke at the same sore spots as nauseum.

I never thought you were a "hater". Guess I came off as doing it though. ANYWAY.

Peeve Numero Uno
-You're a one man highly trained special forces army at level 20. Seriously.
Peeve Numero Dos
-Karma. I can write 10 paragraphs about this but I'll leave it at that.
Peeve Numero Tres
-Theres too much stuff. Item wise. 200 years after a nuclear war and an abandoned house still has a mini-nuke, 4 stealthboys, a refrigerator full of food, and perfectly clean beds.

Many would consider you a hater, for a couple reasons

1: Your tendency to always be on the forums. To many people who come on, you seem to always be on, i know you post constructive criticism, but 24 hours a day gets annoying.

2: Sometimes, people like you sometimes derail threads, it could be nothing talking about the original fallouts, yet somehow it turns into a debate, with you one of the major gears who play in that part.

3: You have some good ideas and some good criticism, yet sometimes you may post things that are logically wrong or just so opinionated. You seem to a lot of people just as a pissed off old fan, who will take nothing other then what you orinally played, even though sometimes you do present a good point.

4: You don't flesh your complaints out enough, Ive seen you post only basic ideas, then enter a pissing contest with somebody else, ultimately taking up posts and not even contributing.

5: Allthough im pretty sure you do have a couple points you like about the game, all you do is post negative stuff, theres not much else i can say.

You bring up the point of Starcraft and Diablo. Both oldschool games getting revived by the same company, you praise it for sticking to the tride and true values of the older games.

Yet i am pretty sure that a lot of oldschool fans will hate them. For both gameplay and nostalgic reasons people will find gripes that will end up with a lot of hate. I am sure this will happen.

The reason for this is the fact that they stick TOO CLOSE to the originals. For since that they are too easy to compare and because of nostalgia and other reasons it will not be as liked. Fallout 3 doesnt have this problem, while im not at all saying the game is perfect it presents something new, yet familiar to the fallout series. This is how a sequel for a game made in the past should be made.

I would like the NPCs to have more personality. Glimpses via dialogue and AI that gives me a glimpse of who they are and what they are like. A few more diplomatic options would also be nice.

For instanceDon't know why, but that really bothers me.

I have to dig pretty deep to find things other than the very small irritants that I don't like about this game. But, I can find something in everything that I would like improved.

Since this game is already out, I'm not sure this doesn't belong in our "FO 4 suggestions" thread. :unsure:

gomez,

do you also share Gizmo's feeling that you are unfairly considered a "hater"? If so, do you wonder why?

I just noticed that this thread was sitting quiet and untouched after an hour. From some of the things I've seen on this forum, from you and others, this had me really surprised. I mean, I love this game and managed to come up with more stuff. Sure a lot of is nitpicky. My personal top gameplay peeve is listed way upthread - the fact that looking at your left wrist allows you to pop half a dozen stimpacks. It also bothers me that during this time you can also change into a Utility jumpsuit, repair your combat armour, then change into the repaired combat armor. Look, I just dug around for some reasons - I mean (shockers!) we agree that the Local Map doesn't really need fixing, but this thread was dying. And I for one would really like to know why so many people seem so very cheesed off at FO3.

So far it looks like it comes down to two things. Primary stats are shockingly unimportant, and dialog trees are shockingly poorly executed. Personally, I agree with #1 (but don't believe that changing this would necessarily lead to a better game) and disagree with #2 (just in scope. Some of the dialog could absolutely be improves). Is that a bad reading of this thread?

If you .

I think my biggest pet peeve would be quest markers.

Yes I know you can turn these off, but you get so little information for quests you NEED them if you are ever going to find anything. This in turn leads to the non-gameplay pet peeve of the awful dialog/writing.

Gameplay shouldn't be 'go to green marker, kill/talk to X, go to next green marker.' Why build a world to explore and get lost in, if you don't need to explore it and can't ever get lost?

yeah its got faults, but so many threads about the same thing is way more irritating than the faults with the game itself.

The quest markers were a bit silly, but I expected as much, can't make people pay attention to the dialogues and so on after all - although it did end up feeling like I was playing a MMORPG at times just grabbing quests, go to marker, etc. I'd say my peeve with the game was mainly the dialogue's quality, the lack of interesting towns (after 200 years, not much progress in the way of recovering) and the seemingly forced rehashing of things from the previous game. Harold, the BoS, Enclave and their plot, FEV, etc.

How did you not like Harold being in the game? Nice to see what happened to him isn't it?

Like others have said, my main gripe would be their implementation of the SPECIAL system. I could write a novel-sized post about this (and have) but basically I'm not terribly impressed with the effect the primary Attributes have in this game. I can get away from comparing to the previous games and how they used, and accept it as Bethesda's take on an old system. But even it doesn't seem terribly well-balanced to me.

Even had there been no previous games to base a comparison on, if this were Fallout 1 and Bethesda had made a totally new IP with this game, I'd still find it in need of refinement. It just seems to lack balance, I think, in regards to the relative importance of the attributes. I'm not increasing one attribute at the detriment of another one with Fallout 3, or stressing over every Attribute point I spend.

I don't think all the Attributes have to have the same exact uses they did in the previous games, but I'd still like to see better balancing between them. Arguably the only really important stat in F3 is Intelligence. Even if you're playing a dumb brute you'll want lots of points in INT for the skill points. Which is not supposed to be the case. This is just my opinion, of course, but I think in a well-balanced system, your strengths in other areas should make up for weaknesses in a skill like INT. You may not get as many skill points and have to focus your character more, but this is countered by strengths in other areas that someone who focused in that Attribute wouldn't have.

Anyway, that's just my main peeve about the game. And this is where I reiterate that I very much enjoy Fallout 3. I have the Collector's Edition, I'm looking forward to DLC, and I'm glad Bethesda was able to bring their other strengths to this game.

The laser weapons are not gory enough, I was hoping laser weapons would split people in half, not turn them into a pile of dust. That's my biggest pet peave I wanted to see laser weapons split people in half in 3d.