[relz] Fcom Convergence and UFCOM [relz] : IV - Oblivion

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:58 pm

I completely agree that this thread is not the appropriate place to go into that much depth of installation - not that every FCOM thread isn't already full of installation questions - to the point that I don't even like to read these main FCOM threads.

I can hand BAIN a full FCOM install in about 2 hours - there is no need to debate merits - the support will either be available or not - you can have triple installation options (manual,OBMM, and BAIN) with some fair amount of work, but probably all that could be handled in a few days.

If not then it will be awkward as people go ... well what about BAIN? and the rules are 'we don't talk about BAIN here and we don't support it.' To say there is no resistance then ask that one installer not be discussed - well let me know how that works out.

I made my offer for you to mull over - what else can I do. Ultimately it is not my problem or issue - I'm not that attached to the outcome. Just seems backwards is all.

I rarely post in this thread, but tonight seemed a good time to make that point. It is done and now I'm gone.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:50 pm

I made my offer for you to mull over - what else can I do.

Thank you.

Rest assured that it will be considered and discussed when time allows ... as for full BAIN support, as has been said before we are moving in that direction but not there yet--until all the details are nailed down to satisfaction, the FCOM team must stick with current methods (which are confusing enough for new users of a mod this complex). As you have pointed out, there are plenty enough questions to answer about installation as it is. But as official spokesmen for FCOM, Shikishima, Showler and CorePC do their best--IMO they have done/are doing an outstanding job of support while still continuing development. Hat's off to them...

Okay, so back on topic...

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:29 pm

Drop the off topic arguments in this thread. :stare:

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:35 am

One, I added something to the beginning of the guide I wrote that will hopefully stem the tide of users posting here with questions specific to that guide. Two, have the recent Wrye Bash updates changed the situation with Oblivion WarCry, that death item issue?

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:46 am

One, I added something to the beginning of the guide I wrote that will hopefully stem the tide of users posting here with questions specific to that guide. Two, have the recent Wrye Bash updates changed the situation with Oblivion WarCry, that death item issue?

It hasn't and I wouldn't expect it to until/unless a tag removal system is implemented. Or alternative tags for FCOM/MMMforOOO/MMMforFrans/etc. builds are implemented.

The DeathItems tag is needed on WarCry except when using FCOM, so it can't be removed outright, and it's part of the "Import Actors" section, so you can't just leave it out of the bashed patch. So, removing the tag is the only way to remove the doubling at the moment.

Perhaps Corepc might consider replacing the DeathItem section with an empty levelled list in future versions to avoid the problem?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:56 pm

Two, have the recent Wrye Bash updates changed the situation with Oblivion WarCry, that death item issue?

Which issue there are two different ones..Let Me explain them to make sure and cover the solution for now.

1) Both Boss Masterlist.txt and Bash Taglist.txt add Tag Actors.DeathItem to Warcry. Which Warcry uses heavily byitself, death drop items,
FCOM Warcry redirect those death items to come from inventory instead. So what ends up happening is double trophies on creatures. 1 from warcry itself and one from fcom itself.

Solution to this is untag Warcry with actors.deathitem. or do not select it under actors in bash patch itself when using fcom.

2) The other issue is from leveledlist itself and in relation to trophies on starting dungeon goblins. that requires a actual adjustment to leveledlist itself to fix. Which is fixed in next UFCOM_Warcry Update has well. See last FCOM thread..

Showler: excellent solution to problem 1 above..

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:22 pm

#1 is the one I was thinking about, so the status is the same. That works.

Thanks for the reply, as usual.
- Tomlong75210

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:19 am

This may be a Warcry issue once again, hence why I didn't post in the MMM thread, but... Here goes:
Newest reinstall, I was running through Vilverin. I came across a giant skeleton named Leoric. Now, I assume it's supposed to be King Leoric from Diablo, which references that it was from Warcry and is a boss-level monster. Now, that would be fine, but it appears that he was not wielding a weapon and dropped 23 Bonemeal upon death and nothing more.
I'm not sure if it's intentional, but I just wanted to bring light to the issue, as it seems very much like the same thing as the Staada. So is this an actual issue, or intentional, or...?

Thanks for any responses!

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:24 pm

Leoric. Now, I assume it's supposed to be King Leoric from Diablo, which references that it was from Warcry and is a boss-level monster. Now, that would be fine, but it appears that he was not wielding a weapon and dropped 23 Bonemeal upon death and nothing more.

I'm not sure if it's intentional, but I just wanted to bring light to the issue, as it seems very much like the same thing as the Staada. So is this an actual issue, or intentional, or...?

Thanks for any responses!

23 bonemeal that is original warcry setting, so that would be normal..

has for weapon and armor those comes from leveledlist So what lvl are you ? need to know that..so that I check leveledlist..

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:55 am

23 bonemeal that is original warcry setting, so that would be normal..

has for weapon and armor those comes from leveledlist So what lvl are you ? need to know that..so that I check leveledlist..

Sorry, only level 1. It's a brand new reinstall and is quite stable as of right now. 3 hours without a CTD.
That's why I was wondering if it was intentional or not; I have met Corpsefire in Vilverin before on previous installs, as well as Leoric, but whenever I would see Leoric, regardless of level, he never wielded weapons and would attempt to use hand-to-hand on me.

Good to know that the bonemeal is intentional, however. If you'd like a Load Order, I can throw that in in about five minutes.
Thanks for the help Core.

BOSS'd Load Order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  underdark.esm02  Silgrad_Tower_T.esm03  TR_OoT_Main.esm04  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.9]05  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm06  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm07  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]08  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.33]09  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]0A  VASE - core.esm0B  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm0C  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0D  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0E  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0F  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm10  Better Cities Resources.esm11  BetterMusicSystem.esm12  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]13  NNWAEMaster.esm14  CM Partners.esm15  Extended Game Mechanics.esm16  TRoN.esp17  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.5]18  DLCShiveringIsles.esp19  Better Cities .esp1A  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp1B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp1C  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1D  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1E  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1F  Fran Armor Add-on.esp20  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]21  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.9]22  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]23  All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  [Version Final]24  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp++  Symphony of Violence.esp25  WindowLightingSystem.esp26  300_Lore_Dialogue_Updated.esp27  AliveWaters.esp28  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp29  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]2A  Never die.esp2B  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.7]2C  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.5]2D  Vows and Covenants.esp2E  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 3.3.4]2F  Vvardenfell_Imports.esp30  XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp31  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp33  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]34  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]35  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp37  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]38  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]39  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp3A  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]3B  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.33]++  OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon - LLOnly.esp  [Version 0.5]++  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]3C  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3F  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]40  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]41  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]42  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  VASE - Cyrodiil for MMM.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]43  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]44  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]46  Cyrodiil transportation network.esp47  AdenseEpicDungeon1_5.esp48  AlchemistsCave.esp49  Auriel's_Retreat.esp  [Version 1.1]4A  CDEP_FanaCeya.esp4B  CDEP-UnderpallCave.esp4C  Demonhunter.esp4D  Dwarven Mines.esp4E  Gift of Kynareth.esp4F  hackdirtabyss.esp50  HeartOftheDead.esp  [Version 6.0.1]51  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp52  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp53  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp54  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp55  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp56  EiAmod.esp  [Version 1.1]++  EiAmod_ShiveringIsles.esp57  OldCrowInn.esp  [Version 1.5]58  LostSwordOfTheAylied.esp59  LostSwordOfTheAylied - OBSE Add-On.esp5A  NNWAREAyleidDungeons_Series1EV.esp  [Version 2.2]5B  NNWAEDungeons-Series2EV.esp5C  NNWARE06-RhyeliaEmeroEV.esp5D  Region Revive - 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Aleswell.esp  [Version 1.6]AF  RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIsle patch.esp  [Version 1.3.2]B0  NRB4+RR Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]B1  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]B2  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]B3  DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp  [Version 1.1]B4  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.espB5  Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp  [Version 1.1]B6  Oblivifall - Let's Talk!.esp  [Version 1.1]B7  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.43]B8  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].espB9  Silgrad_Tower_T.espBA  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.3.4]BB  Extended Game Mechanics Init.espBC  SupremeMagicka.espBD  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp++  SM_AbsorbRestoration.espBE  SM_NoPoisonLevitationEffects.espBF  SM_EnchantStaff.esp++  SM_UnlockSpells.espC0  MidasSpells.espC1  Vector.esp  [Version 0.1]C2  attack and hide medium v2.1.espC3  StealthOverhaul.espC4  sycHearNoEvil.esp  [Version 1.0]C5  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]C6  Duke Patricks - Basic Combat Geometry.espC7  nGCD.espC8  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]C9  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]CA  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]CB  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]CC  ProgressRacial.espCD  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]CE  Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.espCF  Grandmaster of Alchemy.espD0  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 0.76]D1  CuteElf11.esp  [Version 1.3.5]D2  X.Races.Comp.espD3  CM Partners.espD4  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]D5  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]D6  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]D7  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]D8  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 0.993]D9  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]DA  Better Cities - Full City Defences.espDB  Better Cities Full.espDC  BCBravilFULL-Barrowfields patch.espDD  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.espDE  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.espDF  Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.espE0  BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.espE1  BCSkingrad-SkingradOutskirts patch.espE2  Better Cities - VHBloodlines.espE3  Better Imperial City.espE4  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]E5  Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]E6  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp++  KoldornsImprovedLava2.espE7  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.9]E8  Bashed Patch, 0.espE9  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.2]EA  Streamline 3.1.esp

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:03 pm

Funny, I met him twice in my game and both times he had a named two-handed sword with fire damage. I assumed it was standard equipment for him.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:37 pm

Funny, I met him twice in my game and both times he had a named two-handed sword with fire damage. I assumed it was standard equipment for him.

Hmmm... Could I be missing an .esp or a patch or something...? >.< I've read extensively on practically everything there is to make sure I'm installing everything correctly, so if there's something missing, I'd be incredibly grateful if I could be made aware of it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:44 pm

Your OOO needs an update, but I don't see anything else obvious.

Corepc is right, of course, the sword's from a levelled list so it's pure coincidence that both time I met him he had the same sword.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:43 pm

08 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.33]
3B Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.33]

++ Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp [Version 0.76]

Upadate OOO to 1.34beta5 Required for UFCOM and MMM 3.7b3

Update Item Interchange to lastest version

Rebuild bashed patched and find leoric once again.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:14 pm

Your OOO needs an update, but I don't see anything else obvious.

Corepc is right, of course, the sword's from a levelled list so it's pure coincidence that both time I met him he had the same sword.

Updating that right now to 1.34. I'd rather Leoric run around wielding a flaming sword attempting to kill me than his bare fists though. =P
I'll wait on Core to see if I'm missing anything else, but thanks for throwing that out there Showler.

Edit: He beat me to it haha. Awesome, didn't know to update Interchange. I actually believe I had OOO patched to 1.34, but I recall having re-installed 1.33 once more and I guess the 1.34 patch went right past me without a second thought.

Edit edit: Is Item Interchange's most up-to-date version 0.78?

Thanks for the quick responses guys, love this community.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:33 pm

Edit edit: Is Item Interchange's most up-to-date version 0.78?

Yep

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:57 pm

There are different method once again to get BSA to load. And all of those work

but I do not suggest fcom_convergence.bsa

fcom_convergence_Mart's Monster Mod.bsa - Should be the standard Name in case of the below..[/b]

from tes4edit

my fcom bsa is realswords stuff put into bsa,

frans bsa is francesco new item addon.bsa renamed, and always get loaded this way has well. even if I just load fcom_convergence.esp in tes4edit all those bsa still get loaded..

Has I stated different methods for everyone..but FCOM_Convergence_Mart's Monster Mod.bsa will always work the best.

Okay, I am going to use "FCOM_Convergence_Mart'sMonsterMod.bsa" since that is what is in the first post. What is the standard recommendation for loading Fran? Using the Oblivion - method (as on the FCOM homepage) seems kind of outdated at this point...

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:56 am

Okay, I am going to use "FCOM_Convergence_Mart'sMonsterMod.bsa" since that is what is in the first post. What is the standard recommendation for loading Fran? Using the Oblivion - method (as on the FCOM homepage) seems kind of outdated at this point...

Why?
It's uniform, current users that have had problems with Frans BSA use that method, and most importantly it works just fine.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:56 pm

Corepc had his Fran BSA renamed, and it saves users a plugin slot.

Edit: typo, wording

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:36 am

Just adding something i noticed with the naming thing..
Quote Core_PC

Has I stated different methods for everyone..but FCOM_Convergence_Mart's Monster Mod.bsa will always work the best.

Quote First page

FCOM_Convergence_Mart'sMonsterMod.bsa

Both seam to work But Tes4LOD complains if the file has the spaces. I realize the above quote of Core's is probably a typo. OR that Tes4LOD complained cause i had it wrong or what ever. But at first i had it with the Spaces and LOD said missing file so changed it and no more error.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:53 pm

Why?
It's uniform, current users that have had problems with Frans BSA use that method, and most importantly it works just fine.

Better reason: Using the same renaming method for MMM and Fran makes FCOM's installation simpler, albeit only a little. In addition, there is the plugin slot thing, but also it is more uniform when both BSAs are treated the same way. You have updated the instructions in the first post with other things, why not make this one simple change that would make the installation a little easier. It is just a suggestion. I do not know what you guys have going on that would prevent this edit, so I cannot offer more than this.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:49 pm

silly question, is there a recommended timescale and respawn time for FCOM? IIRC Frans suggests 12 and 10 respectively, does it also apply here?

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 am

What is the standard recommendation for loading Fran? Using the Oblivion - method (as on the FCOM homepage) seems kind of outdated at this point...

Why?
It's uniform, current users that have had problems with Frans BSA use that method, and most importantly it works just fine.

Oblivion - bsa name is best method for Frans so that you can test frans without needing fcom loaded..

Renaming the fran new items bsa to FCOM_Convergence_Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.bsa will not load without fcom_convergence. But does not require a slot or editing oblivion.ini either to get frans loaded..

Method 1 Oblivion - bsa name is still best method for Frans once again.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:10 am

I do not see myself, or most users, testing Fran without FCOM, but that is a valid reason... However, you can make that same argument for the MMM BSA. Have them both renamed Oblivion - ".bsa". Is this consideration of uniformity just not important enough to update the docs (in the first post of this thread)? If someone would just say that there is no interest in updating the docs while you all prepare for the next updates UFCOM, FCOM and all of the other projects you all are working on, I would not ask. This is my last question about the current installation procedure anyway, but I have been asking these related questions for the last three days...no more FCOM BSA questions left to ask...

@Gekko64: Many users lower the timescale factor, but it is really a game play preference. I recommend trying one of those settings out. It can be really helpful having more daylight to travel by, more "safe" time. There is an equivalent tweak in the bashed patch, so you do not have to use the Fran plugin for that. The same goes for the respawn plugin. There is a bashed patch tweak for that too. The former is in the "Globals" section and I think the other is in "Tweak Settings" or "Tweak Assorted."

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:25 pm

I do not see myself, or most users, testing Fran without FCOM, but that is a valid reason... However, you can make that same argument for the MMM BSA. Have them both renamed Oblivion - ".bsa".

How about you just add the note has a alternate way to load the bsa. Oblivion - BSAName.esp to your page.

Really do not want to change how current rules for install things are for FCOM or MMM either. the MMM omod installer change the bsa name has needed per config.

If the method changes in the future the notes will be updated.

Some people may not be happy with that decision, but

that is my final decision on that subject once again.