This thread has links to everything you need for FCOM, and it's constantly updated so there are no broken links. Coupled with BAIN, FCOM installation is a breeze so long as you read everything fully. The thing with a compilation package is that you still need to read instructions on how to correctly set up the Based patch, among other things. I personally don't like huge packages because of the length of time it would take to download and the temperamental nature of the internet. And a single package would be huge: somewhere on the order of 2 GB. That would take 4-7 hours to download depending on the quality of your connection.

Much of the confusion comes from the FCOM Homepage being outdated - and Team FCOM hasn't access to it. So right now the most up to date info is in the opening post of this thread. Used in conjunction with the FCOM Homepage it should function rather well for the time being - and seems to do so for most users.

As said, if you have tips on missing info or downloads that are difficult to find etc., just give specific examples and we'll update the opening post accordingly if it makes things easier. Which hotfix isn't mentioned, for example?

That said, there are already unofficial FCOM install instructions, which might be great but also makes it even more confusing for a newcomer IMO. But, of course, we have no control over those - which is one reason we don't appreciate even more unofficial methods to access/install FCOM mods.

Also, there's just no way around the fact that installing FCOM is complicated. Installing MMM alone is complicated as it comes with such a huge amount of optionals. And this focus on options/customization makes it all but impossible to have it easy - as you basically have to read up on what all different FCOM options do. In short, FCOM is "not for the faint of heart" just as it says on the box. Newcomers will always have to read up a lot when installing it.

I assure you, it wasn't easy for me, and I used to maintain about fifty mods back in the day, things have changed, and the instructions have gaps. Perhaps it's not so hard to someone who's been here for a while.

As for the rest of what you said about compilations, that discussion is no longer welcome in this thread, so I'm not going to talk any more about it. All I'll say is these are problems I already know about.

Spread out documentation is not a common feature, just FCOM for the most part. FCOM combines three overhauls and MMM. It has to be complicated. All of those already large, complex mods are independently managed, and the hotfixes and unofficial updates the FCOM team releases are in an effort to update FCOM incrementally for all the separate new versions. Bash is completely separate from FCOM, as a general mod management utility. Basic knowledge of that tool is required to use FCOM, but it is not the job of the FCOM team to teach users how to use every utility necessary to install it. Many mods require OBMM, and most of their ReadMes do not include instructions about how to use OBMM. The utilities have their own ReadMes. The FCOM components have their own ReadMes. Yes, the FCOM docs are spread out, but the docs for the utilities and the mods FCOM requires are generally consolidated and, more importantly, not managed by the FCOM team.

It's cross-referencing on top of more cross-referencing. I've never had so many tabs about one thing open in Google Chrome at once before.


For a while, the Cobl one wasn't, the Diverse Waterlife is in the MMM thread and not mentioned in this one, and there are a couple of other things I don't remember. I really think there needs to be a hand-holding first time user guide that includes the option addons and instruct the user to pick some very common choices that are made, they're not in a position to make a good judgement call.

As for the homepage.. I really don't understand what's holding you all back from opening your own wiki and copying and pasting everything into it and making your revisions.

That is the point. It takes time to learn how to use mods, and a certain amount of experience, that varies by user, is required to get through the FCOM install without to many headaches. All of posting here had to learn how to install and use various utilities and mods before FCOM. I have been using mods for four years now. There is no shortcut, but updated utilities, scripted installation and ReadMes have greatly increased the efficiency of installing many mods, and FCOM is no exception. You get used to keeping up with FCOM updates, trust me. The FCOM install requires more mod usage skills (including grabbing updates and finding docs in a variety of location) than any other mod installation I have done, and I have probably used over 2000 mods at this point, a number of large and complex mods among those. Trying to install FCOM without good knowledge of OBMM (or BAIN) and how to follow mods' ReadMes is a nightmare.

Then I have to say I overwhelmingly disagree with the philosophy that only advanced users should be able to enjoy the best content. Mine is the exact opposite of that.

I don't know. This is the FCOM thread. It's not meant to give a complete guide on how to install MMM - that's what the MMM thread is for. The OP gives quick start instructions, but you should still check the OOO, MMM, Cobl etc. threads when it comes to the install of those.

If an issue pops up often enough here, such as the Cobl installation, we often update the OP with info to make it easier.



We'll get on that, but we're focusing on the next updates of OOO, MMM, Cobl, UFCOM right now. And what's "holding us all back" is lack of time for one thing. It's not like this is our primary paid job or something, so we'll have to prioritize.

Honestly, you come off a bit like your entitled to a perfectly prepared quick guide for an easy installation of several huge mods - and are almost chocked that Team FCOM isn't providing perfect services for this ATM.

You should rather consider the staggering amount of free time that modders have put into FCOM and the major mods that constitutes it as it is. Work that you have free access to, plus free access to support.

Why? What does this even mean? As I said earlier, FCOM is an exception. There are many great mods that are significantly easier to install. This applies to all of its components, even. Have you played with just OOO, FCOM's core before? That is the mod I recommend to new users that are interested in FCOM, or the idea of FCOM. It helps a lot to have prior experience installing any overhaul before installing a mod practically made up of four.


Edit: FCOM is not a merged mod. It is installed on top of a number of other mods, which all have separate docs and features. Using FCOM does not preclude the user from reading those docs by any means.

Unnecessary complexity is the bane of progress. I cannot imagine a mod like Fall From Heaven 2 ever getting the popularity it got if it was as hard to install as FCOM. That mod got so big people made modmods for it.

The complexity is necessary. What do you not get about a mod that combines multiple large overhauls? Have you even installed two overhauls for the same setup? The team here is not trying to win a popularity contest, and you do not seem to understand that the structure of FCOM at all. If you do not want to put in the work to use FCOM, do not use it. Fortunately, mod users have lots of options. FCOM is one in thousands.


Edit: typo

OK, gotta go. Please don't waste this entire thread on this discussion. It will be a scroll fest for those who are looking for info about other stuff. Well, actual info rather.

I think you meant the complexity is necessary, in which case I disagree. It's less about wanting it to be popular and more about wanting more people to be able to enjoy it with me.

Ugh. Now I'm in an internet argument. Look, you have your opinion and I have mine, so let's just leave it at that, this is the last I'm posting about this.

FCOM was actually my first mod installation. I had played Oblivion on Xbox 360 for awhile and finally decided to upgrade to the PC version recently. Reading up on FCOM and its components, and seeing the trailers was actually what made me finally make the jump. While not everything was working as it should the first time, due to the aforementioned Leveled List problem and a few other things, I got it running without crashing. It still has taken me about three weeks and six reinstallations to get everything running correctly.

It was worth it, though, in my opinion.

That's exactly my point though, it shouldn't be that difficult.

My first install of FCOM took, I don't know, perhaps two-three hours, not counting the downloads. And I was completely new to the Bashed Patch at that point. I wasn't new to MMM and OOO, though. So I'd say it depends a lot on how familiar you are with mods in the first place and the FCOM mods/Wrye Bash in particular. If completely new to this, which some users are, it's bound to be difficult I'd say. But then it's a bad idea to try to run before you can walk in general. I wouldn't recommend FCOM in the first place for players that are new to mods.

But if already knowing about the basics and also finding this forum with the release threads, it shouldn't be rocket science really, even with the FCOM Homepage outdated etc. It's rather a matter of taking the time to follow instructions/guides/readmes. :shrug:

I hear a small violin somewhere here.

It doesn't have to be that way though. If the instructions were merely clear, didn't require cross-referencing, and gave you some default choices (i.e. "If you don't know what to pick, pick these."), that would cut the workload for a new user down exponentially. I don't understand why this isn't desired. (Or why I'm apparently now being mocked for wanting more people to be able to enjoy this mod.)

OK, can this be the end of this "discussion" please. Of course we aim to have the install and instructions for FCOM as easy/simple as possible. FCOM is in a state of flux since dev_akm left, which is why the situation is ideal ATM. But, please, stop - otherwise I'll ask a moderator to prune the whole thread of this pointless "discussion."

EDIT: In fact, I'll do that - it's just meaningless ranting anyway.

If you want the discussion to end, quit baiting my responses with long replies and small violins. Yes, please, let this be the end.

I've asked a moderator to prune the whole thread. As you seem obsessed with having the last word, I guess you'll respond to this as well. If you had taken the time from all this ranting and put it into the install instead, you would have the perfect FCOM install by now...

Also, you're on my ignore list from now on so rather pointless to respond to this as I won't see it anyway.

I've already figured out my install. Why exactly are you being so confrontational? I tried to get the arguing to stop from the very first time you asked of it, and you got involved in it.

My previous 'last words' have been along the lines of agreeing to disagree. Do you see me mocking anyone? All I was trying to express was a desire for your install process to be easier so my friends could play too.

I was asked to clean all this topic out. OK, if I did that then there would be nothing left so leave this argument off as it has become multipage. If you wish to continue the discussion take it to PM please.

I've installed Fcom via Tesivpositive guide via obmm because wyre bash did not seem to work. worked the bashed patch according to what the official/tesivpositive site said;

But again the enemies are nearly weak as in vanilla/ nearly so few and i so liked the hostile conglomeratesit like in ooo! So maybe some1 can tell me if its because of my [censored] load order!

BTW owesome mod! Only it is so difficult
PS:BOSS told me not to install Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm but bahed patch won't work without it!






Oblivion.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
FCOM_Convergence.esm
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
xeoex.esp
MidasSpells.esp
VanityCameraSmoother.esp
SD Skill Diary.esp
Display Stats.esp
FormID Finder4.esp
FranOBSEConfig.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
Knights.esp
Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
MOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
Harvest[Containers].esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp
FCOM_RealSwords.esp
FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp
FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp
FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp
FCOM_BobsArmory.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
Streamline 3.1.esp
JQ-Fighters_Guild_United.esp
Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
FCOM_WarCry.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
FCOM_Convergence.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp

The load order is off for one thing. Run http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1111761-boss-better-oblivion-sorting-software/, rebuild the Bashed Patch, wait 4 days for a respawn ingame and go from there. Also, if you still have issues after that, repost your load order via Wrye Bash instead: Right-click File-header > List mods > Paste into post

Thank you for your kind advice, I seemed to really did not undertsand boss at all

The game is now much more teh way i thought it but to my mind enemies still are very low class maybe you have another suggestion?

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]==  NONE=====================07  xeoex.esp08  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.10]09  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]0A  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0B  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0C  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]++  MOBS SI.esp  [Version 1.2.2a]0D  MOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.esp  [Version 1.2.2a]0E  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp11  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FranSeducerScriptFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]12  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  FranOBSEConfig.esp  [Version 0.5]14  VanityCameraSmoother.esp15  DLCHorseArmor.esp16  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]17  DLCOrrery.esp18  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]19  DLCVileLair.esp1A  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1B  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp1C  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1D  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]++  RustyItems.esp1E  DLCThievesDen.esp1F  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]20  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]21  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp22  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]23  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]24  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version .]25  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]26  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.esp  [Version 1.33]27  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]28  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]29  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2A  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2B  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Increased.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2C  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2F  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]30  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]33  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]34  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp35  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]36  DLCFrostcrag.esp37  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]38  Knights.esp39  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  MOBS_Knights.esp3A  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]3B  JQ-Fighters_Guild_United.esp++  FCOM_FighterGUnited.esp3C  MidasSpells.esp3D  SD Skill Diary.esp++  Francesco's Slower skills x1.5.esp++  Level_Rates_Modified_x4.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Francesco's day lenght rescale 1-16.esp3E  Bashed Patch, 0.esp++  OOO-Magic_Script_Effect_Fix.esp  [Version 1.33]