[CYCO JO-NATE]

I believe the trend with all game developers today revolves around time and labor management equals quicker and larger profits –for both the company and the investor. So, many of the developers leave it up to modders to enhance their game for free these days. Case in point are two mods that I have played and done some voice over’s for: And, they are “Quest and Legends” for Dragon Age Origins” and “Alton, IL” for Fallout 3.

“Quest and Legends” was developed by a wonder dedicated team of people who love DAO. In fact, Quest and Legends is very well done and carries the storyline of DAO even further; and, it is as big, file wise, as DAO itself. Wherein, “Alton, IL,” for FO3, was almost two years in the making. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the modding community will do for Skyrim –even more than they already have. We can only hope! I love those people, within the modding community, and they deserve a lot of kudos and credit. Thank you.

Jallard

[Hannah Whitlock]

The Elder Scrolls modding community is fantastic - perhaps the best i've come across for any game series. And if Oblivion is anything to go by, i'm sure we can expect some incredible mods in the future.

[Miss Hayley]

I wouldn't say all. I haven't played a custom map for Bad Company 2 yet, and after a few months of not hearing about any tools being released I kind of stopped playing or paying attention to it. All my friends who played it moved on to other games.

Mods are a selling feature that many companies have seen as something that is really important to part of their community. I don't really think any company in history has said "Lets make a ho-hum game and get it out there. We'll kick it out the door and give the community some tools, and we'll assume some random chump out there will fix it for us."

It isn't that developers "Leave it up to modders" to enhance games, but that they offer tools to allow their players to change the game as they want. After all, it doesn't matter how great of a game the developers make, there will always be some group of players who will complain that the purple on the trim of some minor character's clothes isn't "Purple Enough".

[Robert Devlin]

Why is the common perception that the game developers equal bad and modders equal good. Even before I was an advlt I never understood logic like that. Now that I'm an advlt I can articulate it. Businesses are all in the same business. That business is to make money. That doesn't make them "good" or "bad", it's just a fact. people need to eat, pay rent or mortgage, etc. Good intentions and "the community" don't bring home eggs and milk. Most gaming communities seem to be microcosms of privileged socialist expectations, where the rule makers must be doing something wrong, and the real workers can't do anything wrong

[Wayland Neace]

People who complain about developers don't understand anything about making games. I have tremendous respect for Bethesda and the games that they make. They are technological marvels and their continued dedication to their (entitled) community never ceases to amaze me. Then again, I spend all my time making mods, so I know how hard it is to make a good game. Most of the complaints about this game are based in pure ignorance.

Incidentally, I have tremendous respect for the modders as well. I just think most of the complaints against the developers are completely unfounded.

[Chloe Yarnall]

I believe the trend with all game developers today revolves around time and labor management equals quicker and larger profits –for both the company and the investor. So, many of the developers leave it up to modders to enhance their game for free these days. Case in point are two mods that I have played and done some voice over’s for: And, they are “Quest and Legends” for Dragon Age Origins” and “Alton, IL” for Fallout 3.

“Quest and Legends” was developed by a wonder dedicated team of people who love DAO. In fact, Quest and Legends is very well done and carries the storyline of DAO even further; and, it is as big, file wise, as DAO itself. Wherein, “Alton, IL,” for FO3, was almost two years in the making. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the modding community will do for Skyrim –even more than they already have. We can only hope! I love those people, within the modding community, and they deserve a lot of kudos and credit. Thank you.

Jallard

I think the "Quests and Legends" file size similarity is more than hyperbole, it is an over the top exaggeration. Q&L is only about 1/20 the size of the whole of DA:O as DA:O is about 17gigs just for the game itself without DLCs and the Awakening expansion. Q&L is just over 700megs for the whole file. Now as far as quality, that is most certainly true and I love what the modding community has done for DA:O which has become my favorite RPG of all time.

[Jordyn Youngman]

Bethesda said the ONLY thing they took from mods for this game was bow stuff. I dont believe them. This game looks like totally modded Oblivion. I think where the modders go the game developers follow. Just wait and see what they do to Skyrim!

:D

[Sandeep Khatkar]

Bethesda said the ONLY thing they took from mods for this game was bow stuff. I dont believe them. This game looks like totally modded Oblivion. I think where the modders go the game developers follow. Just wait and see what they do to Skyrim!

:D

Where did they say that was the ONLY thing they took?

I only heard Tod Howard say it was one of the things they took.

[Kari Depp]

Bethesda said the ONLY thing they took from mods for this game was bow stuff. I dont believe them. This game looks like totally modded Oblivion. I think where the modders go the game developers follow. Just wait and see what they do to Skyrim!

:D

he said no such thing , can we have a link to were he said ' the ONLY thing they took from mods for this game was bow stuff' , cause tod howard said something diffrent .

[sw1ss]

I think the "Quests and Legends" file size similarity is more than hyperbole, it is an over the top exaggeration. Q&L is only about 1/20 the size of the whole of DA:O as DA:O is about 17gigs just for the game itself without DLCs and the Awakening expansion. Q&L is just over 700megs for the whole file. Now as far as quality, that is most certainly true and I love what the modding community has done for DA:O which has become my favorite RPG of all time.

I stand corrected regarding Q&L’s file size. Also, I wasn't necessarily complaining about game developers, in general. I think Bethesda did a marvelous job with Skyrim. But, you are absolutely right about DA:O being the best RPG game ever. I still play it. In fact, I have well over 110 mods added to the game. (And, it plays well on my system too.) I also continue to play both FO3 and FNV, with nearly 60 mods added to each. I generally bounce back and forth between all three games. It's that I was reading about a lot gamers complaining about the ending of Skyrim. And, I do understand that like in life, "you can please some of the people some of the time, but can't please all of the people all of the time." Or, something like that.

[Veronica Martinez]

In Point Lookout (Fallout 3 DLC), there were plants you could pick fruit and it functioned a lot like Harvest Flora. The same behavior is in Skyrim only for all harvestable plants.

[Suzy Santana]

The Elder Scrolls modding community is fantastic - perhaps the best i've come across for any game series. And if Oblivion is anything to go by, i'm sure we can expect some incredible mods in the future.

Agreed, the TES mod community is awesome. I can't wait to see what they come up with. :celebration: Big kudos to all the mod makers out there!

[Chenae Butler]

I believe the trend with all game developers today revolves around time and labor management equals quicker and larger profits –for both the company and the investor. So, many of the developers leave it up to modders to enhance their game for free these days. Case in point are two mods that I have played and done some voice over’s for: And, they are “Quest and Legends” for Dragon Age Origins” and “Alton, IL” for Fallout 3.

“Quest and Legends” was developed by a wonder dedicated team of people who love DAO. In fact, Quest and Legends is very well done and carries the storyline of DAO even further; and, it is as big, file wise, as DAO itself. Wherein, “Alton, IL,” for FO3, was almost two years in the making. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the modding community will do for Skyrim –even more than they already have. We can only hope! I love those people, within the modding community, and they deserve a lot of kudos and credit. Thank you.

Jallard

Wrong reply, apologies.

[sara OMAR]

The Elder Scrolls modding community is fantastic - perhaps the best i've come across for any game series. And if Oblivion is anything to go by, i'm sure we can expect some incredible mods in the future.

To be fair, the TES series has always been supported with a toolset (or the like) with all of the TES games (IIRC, didn't play Arena), though Skyrim hasn't had one released yet. The community is good, but IMO, I think before Dragon Age II, Bioware games were equally, if not better with the modding community. I mean, look at the Baldur's Gate series and especially, Neverwinter Nights, and the expansions made for those games, then that incredible toolset for Origins was the best ever, though it wasn't an easy learning curve. Even KoTOR had some really great mods, though there wasn't an official toolset released for it.

[Dominic Vaughan]

Modders > Game Devs

But, without the Devs, there would obviously be nothing to Mod...How about this, Todd Howard said that some of the Mods for Oblivion were put into Skyrim because they worked so well for the game, hence, the new Bow and Arrow Mechanics. Therefore, Modders sometimes know what their doing much more than the Devs themselves, like, have you seen the Google Maps mod for Skyrim? Makes it WAY easier to view the Skyrim Map, why didnt the Devs think of this?

So, even though I think the Modding Community makes the game MUCH more enjoyable than the Devs ever could, they really need eachother to keep all of us interested. I wouldn't have played over 500 hours of Oblivion without Mods.

[ijohnnny]

Bethesda modding community are gods /end

And i got to love devs for making their games mod-friendly and releasing a construction kit!

[i grind hard]

[Rant]

Game devs =/= modders.

Game devs design the core engine, implement the game mechanics, decide on art direction and tone, write the narrative and hire actors, create a tremendous amount of art and music, playtest, and market and distribute the game. I don't see many modders doing much of any of these. Maybe a few models and some quests, a couple of AI tweaks. It's easy to diss the devs when you can sit around all day looking at all the missed opportunities. Missed opportunities are missed because ambition > time + money. Always is, always will be. I don't know any serious modders (the ones behind the big overhauls and provincial expansions) who have anything but respect for the devs.

I'm not saying that the modders in this community aren't talented. I'm sure some of them could work at a professional level and produce great content just like the devs. But I think it's naive to assume that the devs don't want to do more with the game; these guys are all modders at heart, and I'm sure they would gladly do more if, say, everyone who enjoys their games pitched in and paid more for them. I don't think there's a single idea in Skyrim that they couldn't have come up with on their own, effortlessly, the way all of the modders did. It's all staring you in the face whenever you play the game. They're called limitations. The devs are much more familiar with them than anyone in these forums. The amount of arrogance and ungratefulness on these forums is surely one of the Wonders of the Internets. (My apologies to all of the good folk who can maintain some perspective.)

You want to show the devs how to do their job? Go post your WIP thread on polycount. Don't disappoint me; I'll be waiting.

[/Rant]

[Jessica Thomson]

[Rant]

Game devs =/= modders.

Game devs design the core engine, implement the game mechanics, decide on art direction and tone, write the narrative and hire actors, create a tremendous amount of art and music, playtest, and market and distribute the game. I don't see many modders doing much of any of these. Maybe a few models and some quests, a couple of AI tweaks. It's easy to diss the devs when you can sit around all day looking at all the missed opportunities. Missed opportunities are missed because ambition > time + money. Always is, always will be. I don't know any serious modders (the ones behind the big overhauls and provincial expansions) who have anything but respect for the devs.

I'm not saying that the modders in this community aren't talented. I'm sure some of them could work at a professional level and produce great content just like the devs. But I think it's naive to assume that the devs don't want to do more with the game; these guys are all modders at heart, and I'm sure they would gladly do more if, say, everyone who enjoys their games pitched in and paid more for them. I don't think there's a single idea in Skyrim that they couldn't have come up with on their own, effortlessly, the way all of the modders did. It's all staring you in the face whenever you play the game. They're called limitations. The devs are much more familiar with them than anyone in these forums. The amount of arrogance and ungratefulness on these forums is surely one of the Wonders of the Internets. (My apologies to all of the good folk who can maintain some perspective.)

You want to show the devs how to do their job? Go post your WIP thread on polycount. Don't disappoint me; I'll be waiting.

[/Rant]

Her's my take on your rant:

"If some game developer produced a game that was high quality, like Dragon Age Origins was, before EA bought out Bioware, in every single aspect to include storyline I would gladly pay more for the game." In point of fact, I spent well over $180 on DA:O and its DLCs. And, secondly I do sincerely appreciate all of the hard work Bethesda did on Skyrim: and, I am certain they would have done more if the money was there to do do it.

May I suggest that you not read these types of threads, because it obviously gets under your skin. This was merely a discussion not a rant about the developers. Read my initial response again, please. Thanks though for your ranting input. It was appreciated.

[Niisha]

May I suggest that you not read these types of threads, because it obviously gets under your skin.

Sound advice, and diplomatically handled. My apologies. Too much negativity on the forums, I guess. And now I'm contributing to it. :rolleyes:

[Laura Simmonds]

Sound advice, and diplomatically handled. My apologies. Too much negativity on the forums, I guess. And now I'm contributing to it. :rolleyes:

No worries. I get that way too sometimes, especially around politics: But, we won't go there.

[James Smart]

I don't believe developers leave it up to the modding community to modify their games making them better. Developers take games in 1 direction then players given tools can take it in another if they want. This allows for diversity helping to keep a game afloat even after it has come and gone in the eyes of the public. Right now I think there are still people out there modding the FO3 game along with the HL1 game as a starter/learning experience before moving onto more complex things. One thing that still impresses me is the person that put Crysis stuff into FO3 even modifying the UI response system.

[latrina]

I don't believe developers leave it up to the modding community to modify their games making them better. Developers take games in 1 direction then players given tools can take it in another if they want. This allows for diversity helping to keep a game afloat even after it has come and gone in the eyes of the public. Right now I think there are still people out there modding the FO3 game along with the HL1 game as a starter/learning experience before moving onto more complex things. One thing that still impresses me is the person that put Crysis stuff into FO3 even modifying the UI response system.

There are some very talented modders out there I personally hold them in high regard. However, that doesn't diminish my respect for the developers either. As I said previously, I was part of the voice over team for the "Q & L" mod in DA:O. Beyond doing voice overs, however, I am just a user of said mods.

[Vivien]

I believe the trend with all game developers today revolves around time and labor management equals quicker and larger profits

I think this is true of lots of corporations, and there are increasing criticisms that many of them place far too much emphasis on "shareholder value" and not enough on customer satisfaction or looking after their staff. Of course it's not a black and white "good vs. bad" thing, and some companies are worse than others (I'm sure I don't need to spell out who I'm thinking about in the games industry, for example!) And, of course, not everybody within a corporation has the same attitude: the pointy-haired bosses will tend to think this way, the developers and artistic staff will tend to see things another way, though even then it isn't guaranteed what sort of opinion someone will hold just because of their position within an organisation.

In terms of the relationship between developers (as in the companies) and modders, when it works well, there can be a great synergy which benefits the company and their customers alike; when it doesn't work, it can cause all sorts of problems, with people who are first and foremost the customers ending up doing much of the testing and fixing, or being locked out of the creative cycle altogether so as not to compete with the company's own after-sales offerings. Usually it's not one extreme or the other and tends to lie somewhere in the middle; where Bethesda is concerned, I'd like them to involve modders a bit more and to be a bit more thorough with their testing, but then again I look at some of my other favourite franchises and realise that they could be an awful lot worse, too.

[K J S]

Hey, thanks for using Alton as an example.

But even the ability to spend two and a half years creating Alton is the reason why Bethesda will always be my favorite studio. They're one of the few that pretty much just hand us the development tools and say "have at it."

[Mizz.Jayy]

Hey, thanks for using Alton as an example.

But even the ability to spend two and a half years creating Alton is the reason why Bethesda will always be my favorite studio. They're one of the few that pretty much just hand us the development tools and say "have at it."

Elijah, you're here. Got any plans for Skyrim yet? I am ready to do some voice overs again. I would welcome the opportunity to help you again.