gtx 580 3GB vs HD5870 1GB, Honest Advice Needed

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:10 pm

Depending on what you're using the PC for, you can definitely have too much RAM. Not in a bad way, but in a "what's the point?" way...


It's probably supposed to use all of the VRAM, to make the game run smoother.

no, Even in the senarios where your more than exceeding the necessary amout consumed..... lets say runnig 8gb of ram but not "CURRENTLY" using anything more than 3gb maybe 5gb at any given time.... you still cannot ever have enough. While it's plenty for the time being, when it comes to a few years passing, specially with things finally starting to migrate to 64bit now/soonish.... the 32bit limits are no longer going to hold back creative artists and graphic designers from having to keep everything "within" the limits currently imposed.

No it's not "supposed" to use all the vram, it uses whatever it can when it needs to, and offloads any excess to physical ram "if" it can do it. Add to that a third frame buffer, some FSAA and so forth.. and your vram will have been exhausted before starting to play with graphic settings.

Is it silly for manufacturers to install lets say 2gb of DDR3 vram on a HD5450 ATI card or a Nvidia 520 video card? Yes most definitely, not only is the DDR3 terrible performance wise for graphics, the GPU is just piss poor to begin with. Modern high end GPUS and even decent midrange ones with excessive amounts of vram are able to retain stable and playable frame rates, when the gpu is waiting on the vram/physical ram to swap textures and data around, what's the point? The moment you exceed the vram's capacity, the gpu is going to be waiting unless it's already overburdened.

Not really true. You hit a point at which the GPU is maxed out and more video RAM would do no good at all. It really depends on how much data the GPU can process. Graphics card manufacturers typically sell midrange - low-end enthusiast cards with more video RAM than they need toward the middle-end of the GPU's life cycle to squeeze more money out of the market. In almost all cases the performance gain doesn't justify the price increase over the reference VRAM configuration. I'm not saying that having plenty of VRAM isn't good, but once the GPU (or even the PCI-E bus) becomes the bottleneck it's pointless to add more. That doesn't stop the card manufacturers, though. :wink:

Read the above, VRAM is in fact very cheap.... NOT talking DDR3 for vram.. but GDDR5 currently.. there is very little increase in video card price jumping from a 1gb to 2gb card.... even today a HD6790/HD5770 card with 1gb is pumping out very great frame rates, and if it had 2gb of vram would perform even better in skyrim with high resolution textures just fine, but unfortunately it can't due to the lack of vram on it. It would sure improve the frame rate. I can confirm this with previous generation knowledge. If a senario comes about typically where vram is in short supply, things improve considerably when more of it is made available Provided the gpu is fully capable of it.


Surfice it to say, with the increase in resolution and FSAA being applied today.... vram is huge demand, Those running eyefinity setups just with skyrim's vanilla typically uses double to triple the amount of vram than standard 1080p single displays.. simply due to the extra amount of pixels to render out. Gpus fully capable of doing it, but with those riding the vram limits already..... doesn't leave much room for extra textures due to already filling up the vram.

with 3gb cards... like i said previously in another post.... i can have the vram on that card totally exhausted before getting even into the higher FSAA settings and would be able to retain a higher frame rate if it wasn't for the fact that i ran out of vram.
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Nienna garcia
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 2:58 pm

Read the above, VRAM is in fact very cheap.... NOT talking DDR3 for vram.. but GDDR5 currently.. there is very little increase in video card price jumping from a 1gb to 2gb card.... even today a HD6790/HD5770 card with 1gb is pumping out very great frame rates, and if it had 2gb of vram would perform even better in skyrim with high resolution textures just fine, but unfortunately it can't due to the lack of vram on it.
Can you substantiate this with data? Higher-resolution textures require more fill rate muscle from the GPU in addition to more video memory. I'd be willing to bet that a 5770 with 2GB of VRAM wouldn't get more than a pittance of additional FPS over the 1GB version. If a 6950 with 2GB of VRAM doesn't get more than a 3-4% boost from the additional 1GB of VRAM I don't see how a 5770 is going to do any better at the same resolution and settings.

Take a look here:
http://www.techspot.com/review/467-skyrim-performance/page6.html

There seems to be little correlation between performance and the amount of VRAM.

As far as VRAM prices go, yeah, right now the "extreme VRAM" versions of most video cards are reasonably priced compared to their reference VRAM couterparts. This is because we're toward the end of the product life-cycle, though. Months ago the higher-VRAM versions of most cards were considerably more expensive. I don't consider $50 for an additional 1-2 FPS to be economical, personally. :shrug:

It would sure improve the frame rate. I can confirm this with previous generation knowledge. If a senario comes about typically where vram is in short supply, things improve considerably when more of it is made available ...
Can you confirm it with actual data rather than "trust my previous generation knowledge?" We all have "previous generation knowledge." My knowledge of previous GPU generations tells me that a GeForce 9600GT with 1GB of VRAM doesn't perform noticeably better than a GeForce 9600GT with 512MB of VRAM. :shrug:

...Provided the gpu is fully capable of it.
This was exactly my point.
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Lynne Hinton
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:14 am

Hey guys, thanks for the interesting conversation, I made my decision and went ahead and bought :blush:

I'm very impatient, it may have been wise to wait for the 580 price to drop, if Nvidia had said a release date I may have waited. As long as its more than 1 month away it won't really bother me too much anyway. Turns out its not just Skyrim I was getting performance issues with, my BF3 performance was down around 30ish aswell, but only noticable lag when looking toward smoke or long open areas in maps. I didn't realise until I put FRAPS on it how low my average FPS was in BF3. Basically, 30 frames in Skyrim is a hell of a lot worse than 30 frames in BF3, at least you maintain full control of your mouse in BF3 :biggrin:

I just don't get you Skyrim, you are a harsh mistress indeed :confused:
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IsAiah AkA figgy
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 12:43 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the interesting conversation, I made my decision and went ahead and bought :blush:

I'm very impatient, it may have been wise to wait for the 580 price to drop, if Nvidia had said a release date I may have waited. As long as its more than 1 month away it won't really bother me too much anyway. Turns out its not just Skyrim I was getting performance issues with, my BF3 performance was down around 30ish aswell, but only noticable lag when looking toward smoke or long open areas in maps. I didn't realise until I put FRAPS on it how low my average FPS was in BF3. Basically, 30 frames in Skyrim is a hell of a lot worse than 30 frames in BF3, at least you maintain full control of your mouse in BF3 :biggrin:

I just don't get you Skyrim, you are a harsh mistress indeed :confused:

Woohoo! Welcome to the (almost) exclusive club of "Skyrim loves my computer" club! :biggrin:

Now we just need to convince you to to replace you mobo so that you can get an i7 2600K and overclock the hell out of it. :devil:
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Elina
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:11 pm

Hehe, I got the right mobo for it :banana:

But, not enough money for it :yuck:
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Nina Mccormick
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:43 am

My 560 TI can run most games, including Skyrim, Mafia II, Deus Ex, Dead Island etc, at Max settings with absoutley no hiccups. One thing I have noticed when using it with Skyrim, occasionally hugh lighting transitions cause a huge fps drop that can only be fixed by staying inside or reloading. Usually occurs if it has gone from light to dark, or the shadow posisitions change, while I have been in an interior. Also, its usually after a solid 2-3 hours of playtime.
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Andrea Pratt
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 6:02 am

Well you asked for input. I had two Nvidia cards, and both of them turned out to be garbage. A 8800 Gt alpha dog and 8800GTS.
Too power hungry and under preforming compared to other cards at that time (4870) and it cost to much.

I swapped to a XFX 4870 and have had a XFX card from that to a 5870 and my 7970 now.
Whats wrong with CCC?
I just find XFX/ATI cards all around better from my experience.

Here is what I am running.
AMD 1055T
8 gigs of DDR3
XFX 7970
windows 7.
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roxanna matoorah
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:18 am

Last Nvidia card I had was a GTX 280 and it melted within 6 months of buying it, which is why I switched to ATI/AMD.

The best two cards I've ever had were a 8800GTX, fantastic, really amazing card, High/Ultra gaming for 5 years or more, and my Radeon 5870 which sadly suffers with AA since I moved up to 1080p. Best cards I ever had, every other card I had was nothing in comparison to those two. I'd say overall the 8800GTX was the winner though.

As for CCC, it freezes on me a lot, (it is installed properly and the old drivers were cleaned properly) although the latest drivers I'm using 12.1 seem okay. Also, it seems to give worse performance forcing through CCC even though its supposed to be better. Finally, it doesn't work in all games, not until a driver is brought out, Starcraft 2 classic example, Nvid force AA from day 1, Radeon wait for a month (there was no AA in Starcraft unless you force it, at release anyway). Also, missing options, like forcing Ambient Occlusion.
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 2:18 pm

New card arrived :biggrin:

Wow, its a massive difference, massive!

Battlefield 3 Test: Can't remember my settings, but I think it is max but with AA turned down to 2. This is how I ran it on my Radeon and I didn't change settings after putting in the 580.
Radeon 5870: Range 28-35, Most Common 32, extremely stable hardly ever shifting from 32 except when looking at long distance or smoke/fog. Indoors like in Metro etc it goes up by a few frames to the 35 mark.
GTX 580: Holy cow.... I start up the game and am running around at 90 frames!!! Around smoke it drops to 50ish, still very, very nice.

Skyrim Test: Ultra settings with 2xAA on the Radeon and 8xAA on the GTX580. Running in windowed mode, fullscreen. No mods. No ini tweak except the fullscreen=0

Indoors: mostly 60 on the Radeon, dropping to around 45 in big rooms particularly with mist/fog. Also, mostly 60 on the GTX580 dropping to about 45 in big rooms with mist/fog.
Cities: Mostly Mid to high 40s on the Radeon, not tested on the GTX yet.
Outdoors: On the Radeon mostly high 30s and low 40s. Drops to low 30s or high 20s in areas with lost of trees (distanc trees excluded). My test spot where I found the lowest FPS I could, 24 with mods, 25 with no mods and 2xSSAA, 28 with no mods and 2XMSAA. On the GTX with Ultra and no mods, 60 solid, absolutely everywhere, I haven't seen it drop at all except when a new grid is loading where you always drop for a splitsecond.

So, basically, in Battlefield my frames have doubled (Edit: dumb maths, almost tripled) and in Skyrim my outdoor frames have doubled at the worst spot, increased by about 20FPS at most places.

I'm very happy!

Still have to use windowed mode though, I get stuttering around indoor lighting if I don't.
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Alexandra walker
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:12 am

For the stuttering try lowering your shadows to high. Skyrim is more CPU dependent when in comes to shadows and high still looks good enough.
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Sara Lee
 
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