I would have no complaint if Bethesda made a hardcoe Mode...as long as it was done properly. Of done half-assed, it's a waste of time and resources that could have been better put to something else.

I would bet that Bethesda looked at it and realized that to do it right, where it made sense and actually added something meaningful to the FO world and game play...well...the decided it wasn't worth the effort.

It would have been an embarrassment for them to turn in something similar to what Obsidian did in NV...and they saw that.

They know people wanted something hardcoe as it was all over every forum that had anything to do with FO4...but they chose not to add it for whatever reason.

I'm okay with that because I'm in love with what they gave me. I'm a very satisfied customer who doesn't need more. I create my own hardcoe Mode that far outdoes anything that could ever be coded in the game.

We barely touched D&D and AD&D, found it too much hack&slash and less roleplay/deep mechanics based. Have a look at one of http://www.google.com/url?url=http://torsjoha.tihlde.org/rpg/RM/Rolemaster%2520SS%2520-%2520Standard%2520Rules%2520-%2520OCR.pdf&rct=j&q=&esrc=http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1561242-hardcore-and-realism/s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjC2tiowKvJAhVhdXIKHWUPARcQFggbMAE&sig2=zr0W4I-GpmaqEnR3Rk_bhg&usg=AFQjCNEwa4bM81LGIqxdNB7ThomsC46wyQ rulebooks (we had full collection of all companion books, huge pile of rules ), search for sleep and observe the deeper mechanics. And again, we could discuss with Game Master if we wanted to omit some rules - meaning optional in a Computer based RPG setting. If you don't want it, turn it off. For those of us who prefer deeper roleplaying mechanics, why do you have to argue against it?

I'd rather have a modern Ford than the original T-Ford - mechanics wise it has been much improved even if it's not the original.

I just don't understand the whole realism thing. How can you want realism when you are playing a game based exclusively on fantasy? There's Super Mutants, giant mutant crabs, and zombies. I don't see anything real about any of that.

Your imagination is broken.

Sure, that's why all Fallouts up until F4 had "Survival" skill -because Fallout was newer survival game You make lot of sense ...not

Now to OP, yes I would like to have NV "hardcoe mode" in F4 as well. In fact I would like to it being even more "hardcoe" then in NV.

No, my imagination is just fine. I just don't get the whole "realism" and "immershun" stuff. I've been RPing my character just fine.

dude i have a survival skill on D&D and that doesnt make D&D a survival game, survival skill normally is attach to getting better healing from food or animal meat.

The hard-core mode on NV was a horrible way to force ppl to use food (that become irrelevant after the first 10m of game)

I think it's much better for the game to give you a real reason to find eating/drinking/sleeping useful, instead of a shallow "you must eat now" indicator.

And FO4 seems to have managed that for me - I certainly use food a lot, since it's terribly useful. Haven't slept much, because it does nothing but give an XP bonus (which I don't need) and pass time.

...but then there were all the people complaining on the Skyrim/FO3/etc boards that having this damned UI on the screen "ruined their immersion". So more readouts on the screen (need to eat, need to drink, need to sleep!) seems like it would be less "immersive".

Nobody was forcing you to do anything, hardcoe mode was optional. Dudde. What you attach your survival to is irrelevant.

To the OP:

YES, I would love more realism/hardcoe options to make the game more challenging/immersive.

Some here keep stating it is NOT a survival game or this or that. I disagree, but that is besides the point.

Point is to allow others to have the option, and that would be awesome to have; an option.

Ugh, you kids today and your "immersion." Such fragile imaginations.

AD&D is hack and slash? You are talking out of your...slash. Shoot, the concept of stat checks for things outside of combat was developed in that system. Charisma was introduced, and used to determine your ability to influence people and calculate the number of your allowable followers.

There were dozens of books with specialized rules and class descriptions for different world settings. You are totally off base. AD&D was VERY deep. We would play entire sessions with ZERO combat, and that was normal.

Oh, and you did not have hunger, thirst or sleepiness stats. You camped to memorize spells and prepare components (we used them, yes. We also used the dreaded Encumbrance rules and did not allow bags of holding).

They include physical needs in one game, not even made by the same dev, and now because it's not in this game OP says it's not even an RPG... RPG's have been around for more than 35 years without needing to assign a calories stat to a leg of mutton.

I loved hardcoe mode.

I get that people feel like feeding and drinking and sleeping felt like chores, but to me it really added to the game because when my characters felt hunger and thirst and sleeplessness it felt imersive because I know how those things feel in real life.

A lot of people also fail to mention stimpaks healing over time and ammo weight.

Ammo weight made my experience considerably better. I feel like being able to carry around thousands of rounds of every type of ammo is silly. Even in FO3 I took what I though would be a realistic amount of each type guns and ammo, and it paid off when I ran out of ammo and had to improvise or avoid some fights. It just feels more realistic/challenging and thus rewarding in my opinion.

Crippled limbs having to be healed by doctors or doctor's bag was a nice touch too.

Even though I was very disappointed about hardcoe mode not making a comeback for FO4 it doesn't bother me much because I know when mods come around there will be several hardcoe mode mods from day one.

For now I'll keep playing on just my initial character because I want my 2nd to 4th characters to be played with hardcoe mode mod and other mods too.

Realism.... so remove synths, gouls, super mutants, death claws, and giant animals because they are unrealistic? Not no mention the US ever waring with China whom we love to do business with and they love doing business with us to the point where we basicly cannot survive without them.

It might depend on which edition of D&D he's talking about. 4th apparently was quite different than 1-3. And 5th is an entirely new thing as well (doesn't seem too simplified to me, from what I've seen of it, though. It's certainly not the rule-slog/min-maxer's paradise that 3rd edition was.)

Of course, if he's praising RoleMaster, his idea of a reasonable number of rules/etc is likely a bit higher than yours. We played RuleMonster back in the early 90's in college..... and as a bunch of number- & detail-obsessed Engineering/Math/Science nerds? We skipped a whole lot of the extra junk that they filled that system up with for the truly OCD roleplayers.

I personally need something far better than needing to eat sleep and drink is worthy of being called "hardcoe". Survival does need to be beefed up though and hopefully some interesting mods come out. That or maybe they beef it up themselves in a later patch.

One of the things that was spoiling hardcoe in NV was abundance of food. There was not much to be done with that since game setting was based on fighting lot of enemies, many of whom were dropping food items. So player was swimming in food just by playing the game.

However with new food/cooking and radiation mechanic in F4, this can be easily addressed. Fresh food can be set to give little nutrition and lot of radiation while cooking requires several "raw" items to create "clean" food. With right balancing of speed of "metabolism", this can create reasonable scarcity of food.

Similar with water, drinking irradiated water is much more costly with new radiation mechanic therefore pure water can be much more valuable.

There are many other things which can be altered and balanced in comparison to NV hardcoe mode of course, this is just what came to my mind playing F4.

Oh, adding hunger, thirst and sleep to companion would be nice as well.

Am I the only one that thinks that drinking from stagnant irradiated sources needs to cause a bad dyssentary effect?

Considering the Survival Skill was a crafting skill....no, it has nothing to do with it, that is like saying Fallout 4 is a survival game because IT has a Survival Difficulty.

you must not have played D&D much, or you would know the entire concept of Hack and slash RPGs CAME FROM D&D 1e and 2e.

otherwise i do agree with your other points.

Radiation is harmful to all living organisms so heavily irradiated water (one irradiated for long time) would be fairly sterile, with little to cause dysentery.

welcome to the hypocrisy of the Realism = immersion group of players.

No it was not crafting skill. You should consider improving your knowledge about Fallout.

I drink a purified water after eating some cooked meat just for the idea that it is what I would do in real life xD

in fallout New vegas it was a crafting skill, it did not exist in ANY OTHER GAME in the series.

now, if talking about the OUTDOORSMAN skill, which existed in the pre-bethesda games, yeah, literally nothing to do with any kind of survival effects, literally the only thing it did was effect encounter rates.

You should consider improving your knowledge about Fallout.