Karakh's thread regarding "One death - hardcoe Discussion" http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1383268-you-have-but-one-life-hardcoe-discussion/ got me thinking ...


Why not build a hardcoe ruleset into an MMO? Give the players a choice in how they wish to play the game. I'm pretty sure almost everyone has heard the cries from many, many MMO players over the years say "this has been dumbed down.." etc and to be honest , they are absolutely correct. MMOs have been watered down, developers argue that they want the game to be accessible to everyone, they would like to see players enjoying the content they've designed... and thats fair enough, after all it is their game.

But why not give the players a choice?


A 'quick example' of a hardcoe ruleset could be;

- having to eat, sleep and drink
- challenging monsters, encounters and dungeons. Tuned to a higher difficulter where progress will be tested, not unfairly or cheaply either. The RPG Dark Souls could be an example of where the difficulty may be around.
- less insta traveling to locations, note less not completely abandoned.
- player death means loss of a portion of xp (or something equivalent), a meaningful gold hit, a debuff?
- spend time in prison to the detriment of some of your abilities for a period of time if you get caught stealing, commiting a crime, etc.
- encumbrance, items have weight
- no quest helpers
- no more glowing quests objects saying "hey look at me I realise you aren't very intelligent"
- a little more interesting AI for mobs to make it challenging, they drink potions, run and get help, etc
(note pvp would perhaps have to be really well thought out to punish or prevent griefers, personally I enjoy open world pvp and love a good gank every now and then but specific griefing to be nothing but an a**hat would have to be considered)


I would be very interested to see what players would do if they had a realm option, stick with the everday vanilla realm or try a hardcoe one. I'd wager that a hardcoe realm would be pretty popular.

Thoughts?

Combine that with this: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1384765-the-elder-scrolls-darktide/

And we have one awesome RPG.

This one will be the first thread I'll put an "follow" stamp on.

And I know whats coming; If you do not like the rule set, it doesn't mean others do not want it, infact, quite many will. So the argument "I do not like it" won't suffice, I wish to see rational discussions about it.

this hardcode mode is completely obsolete in mmo's

95% of the people that play the game will not be interested in it

therefor, it will not be worth their while to put the effort into making it and it will not be in the game


sorry to cut your dream short

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that thread. Similar in the sense of giving players a choice, his thread was probably more pvp orientated where mine was probably more general pve. Still, its interesting. I am just kind of over the lazy easy design of many MMOs these days that holds your hand and tucks you into bed. I'm growing tired of them.

I very much agree with your comment regarding the "I don't like it" argument, its not about what you like or don't like its more about the option of giving the player a choice. It's absolutely more work for the developer but with some thought I could see it being viable and it would definitely pay off in spades for the devs.

Don't be sorry, thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but speaking for 95% of the player base is pretty asinine.

Minus sleeping, interesting AI and prison time, you've described EQ in it's earlier days. It's still reminiscent of it now, however over time it's been updated to make it a little easier...for example they've made coin weight nothing, where in it's earlier days you could become over-encumbered simply by having too much coin on you.

The developers would have to include some elements that don't fall under higher difficulty, or punishment for players not striving for exceedingly perfect performance.Things to make the world you're playing in feel alive. NPCs that do more than stand around all day, wander aimlessly through the village waiting for you to come grab quests. NPCs that serve no other purpose than being around for idle chit-chat and being used as a method of dispensing world gossip and lore. The ability to read what NPCs are saying to other players (their quest blurbs or merchants "hey buy this"), and speaking of merchants, the ability to sell things to that merchant, and those items still on the merchant for the person next up to buy. (and vice versa). Environments that affect you as an adventurer, if you stay too long in the dessert you would get "heat stroke" or the debuff that would serve as heatstroke. stay too long in the frosty mountain peaks and you'd be at risk for hypothermia, which you could ward off by buying a heavy duty cloak in the villages surrounding the mountain.

etc. etc. I think MMOs coud benefit greatly from building worlds where you feel like you're directly affecting, and being affected by more than just fields of monsters that are nice enough to stay out of towns.

Your comment ... "therefor, it will not be worth their while" is an interesting one. Catering to all styles of players (read hardcoe players that would like more of a challenge in their MMOs and casuals that would like less penalties, more in game helpers and more instant gratification) is probably worth every bit their while. Considering MMOs have an incredibly long development period and they cost a small fortune to make, I'd say that spending a little more time at least attempting to cater for players that would like more of a challenge - well worth the effort. How is SWTOR doing for BioWare? The much lauded WoW killer fell incredibly flat. TESO has come under fire from all quarters with many writing it off before they've even glanced at it, its been in development for 5+ years and they would have pumped an enormous amount ot of cash into it. So no I don't really agree with your "therefor, it will not be worth their while to put the effort into making it ".

Great comments Solara, you've gone a little way (in 5 minutes) into describing a true next gen MMO in my opinion. Some real thought into the world of an MMO is absolutely whats required and I would have thought that the The Elder Scrolls series would be the ideal franchise to do just that. Haha yes I did pretty much describe an early EQ didn't I, I'm sure some more thought could be put into it, it was just off the top of my head. I do think that developers in general have strayed a little too far in terms of designing MMOs for accessibility, instant reward and ease, simply just taking it away rather than leaving it in and making it a choice.

As a person who's professional in marketing, of all the MMORPG's that are out there, previous and current, I'd say the market for HC realm that's more "sandbox" would exceed over a million. Look at EVE's setting, its doing great, even though most people dislike the fact that its space stuff. Then there's the pirate UO market, which has tens to hundreds of thousands of players. Then there are people who still play games like AC : Darktide, Shadowbane (emulated, the chinese are making their own, because the asian market for one is MASSIVE). Then there are players who are just waiting for the real deal, who refuse to play MMORPGs of todays standard, myself included. I arrived to this forum just to advocate a change for 1-2 servers, which would cater to the needs of the market. Also all the most known MMORPG clans are "hardcoe PvP" focused (MMORPG history altogether, although some are more known in game such as WoW, the whole market does not know those clans). Although some also play the themepark ones.

I'd love it if MMOs become truly interactive. I'd love it if I chose to play a cleric I'd be more than a security blanket for warriors and mages when fighting end zone bosses. If I play a cleric I'd really feel my role if when I walk into town I'd run into townspeople who worship the same deity that I champion asking for healing for their sick loved ones, or just some company to sit with and pray. Of course, vice versa, I'd expect to run into those I deem heretics and non-believers that heckle me and challenge my beliefs. I'd love to play a barbarian berserker with a huge hulking body and see shopkeepers and nervous townspeople stare at me in wonder and take measures to give me breadth. I love it if when I ask a guard for directions they start out like they are now: letting me know where my place is in the village when I first start questing for the town. By the end of the questlines the guards should be saluting me, or at least acknowledging what I've done for their town (or following me, keeping and eye out if I'm playing a less-than-good character).

Long story short it would be nice if I were regarded as far more than adventuring hero #45932