I'm a Nord. I don't use ANY magic, I don't have any interest in using magic and the College of Winterhold? Bah! I'd rather stab myself with my own sword than be surrounded by those full-of-themselves mages and Altmer. I am a law abiding citizen, on the whole, I have NO interest in joining the Dark Brotherhood and would rather spend my days rotting in jail.

However, if I want to have access to ALL of the Dragon Shouts, I have to join these factions? This is honestly my only complaint with Skyrim; for a game that encourages "do what you want, be what you want", I am being punished because I don't want to join certain factions? Dragon Word Walls should NOT be closed off to anybody, even those who join NO factions! I can't get one of my favourite looking shouts of them all because I refuse to join the Mages Guild?

I don't see how this was ever in line with Bethesda's and the TES series' mantra! "Be who you want! Do what you want! - oh, except for the fact that you HAVE to do this and this and this and this and this otherwise you won't be able to access a power that is completely unrelated to what you HAVE to do".

Please tell me that there is a way to get into Saarthal without joining the College of Winterhold and that's just one of the Word Walls I am denied to. I love you Bethesda. I love Skyrim more than any other game... but this. THIS? One cannot simply deny players access to shouts!

Not getting everything you want is not a punishment. There's lots of things you don't get if you don't do particular quests. Shouts are no exception.

My response is simple: You are a collector. The game isn't forcing you to do anything. The factions give great rewards, extend playtime, and are fantastic! Yes you have to join the factions to join armor. SAD FOR YOOOUUUU!!

Don't forget the fact that if you wanna do the "Fighter's Guild" (Companions) questline, then you:

Why don't you just try using your shouts in towns and villages and let your 'friend' show you the locations of different word walls. Just do it. Just shout inside a settlement once or twice and watch wwhat happens.

But surely something that is part of the main story shouldn't be blocked off? What if you had to complete the main quest to be able to complete the faction quests? Would you still agree that was fair?



I agree, the faction quests are fantastic! And I will most definitely play a mage some time in the future, but this mage won't be Dovakhiin, so he won't care about shouts. I don't understand what you mean about joining factions to join armour. It's not me it's sad for, it's all of us. This TES might have main quest rewards blocked off by side quests but maybe the next TES will have the actual main quest story blocked off by faction quests! Would you be happy if you HAD to join all the factions to complete the MQ?



Yes! I totally agree! Being forced to do that is just as bad as being forced to do faction quests to get Dragon Shouts! That happening through disease is acceptable, but through the Companion's Guild is also against what TES stands for. Where is this choice our friend, Mr Howard, has been talking about!?



You have a point, when I first got that letter I thought perhaps it was main quest related as I got it straight after being summoned by the Greybeards, but alas, it was only coincidence. Unfortunately, many of the faction quest related dungeons/word walls are locked/blocked until you complete the quest so without joining the faction, I still can't access it.

I don't see it as too big of a deal. If you want those shouts bad enough: join the faction. If you don't wanna join the faction, then you don't get the shout. It's the same as any other reward you get from factions. In Oblivion my main character wasn't interested in the Dark Brotherhood so he didn't get things like Sufferthorn, the Scales of Pitiless Justice, etc. it's the same concept really, it's a reward for joining a faction and completing quests.

Have you heard of roleplaying?

Not being able to play a Dragonborn Nord properly is a big deal.

Thank you! Finally someone else understands why this design flaw IS a big deal! I'm not a very good Dovakhiin if I can only use a few shouts and I'm DEFINITELY not a good mage, so why would I join the College?



That's completely different. You didn't need the Sufferthorn, the Scales of Pitiless Justice.etc to do the MQ, yet the Shouts ARE the MQ. What if you had to join all the factions in Oblivion just so you could obtain the Daedric Artifacts for Martin?

You don't need the shouts for the MQ. I'll give you that they are more involved with the MQ than the other things I mentioned, but it's not stopping you from completing the MQ. It is stopping you from getting all the shouts, which I can understand you being upset at that. I'm just saying it's not stopping you from completing the MQ.

Okay, I realise they aren't strictly necessary, but you have to admit they are an integral part of the MQ, the lore and they are, after all, one of the few truly new, (rather than revamped), features in Skyrim.

Wait, you need to join factions to get shouts? I'm aware that some are located at places associated with Factions, but I still got those shouts.

I personally like there being consequences to your choices, it's something very lacking in Oblivion. It's great, IMO, from an RP perspective. If your character wants to do something or get something (or avoid doing/getting something) they must (or mustn't) do certain questlines

There's one hidden in


I agree with this wholeheartedly.


I'll give you that, but it still doesn't bother me, personally. Still, to each his own.

That's not entirely true.

I'm trying to think of other ways to access some of the shouts.

Wow I didn't know that! I'm going to do that later.

Well, that svcks indeed. They should have restricted shouts to open dungeons.

None of this makes any sense. The shouts aren't the main quest at all. The MQ gives you as many shouts as you need and there's a ton more to find without doing any faction quests. What makes you think you're entitled to all the shouts? Particularly because the shouts in the faction quests are usually geared towards that faction. If you're RPing a good character you would not use the shout you get from the Dark Brotherhood anyway.

Yes, and part of the lore is that some Dragonborn were good and some were evil. Some were mages and some were fighters. If you don't want to join factions for RPing reasons then you're missing out on those shouts because of the lore not inspite of it. That's a good thing for a RPG.