Well, we make that kind of judgement in the game all the time. We find camps of Raiders and know these guys are murdering and pillaging all over the Commonwealth so we kill them. While we can say gameplay has motivated us to do this, the fact is our Sole Survivor has taken it upon themselves to dish some vigilante justice. This despite the fact the terminals are full of humanizing moments for the various Raiders.

I know my Lone Wanderer walked into Paradise falls and killed every last slaver there by himself. Then he killed all the ones at the Lincoln Memorial. Also the ones serving Asher.

It's a very ubermensch-driven world in the Siegal and Schuster sense. The superhero needs to bring order to the Wasteland and must judge what is the right and what is the wrong because, otherwise, no one does and the world continues to descend further into chaos.

A heavy responsibility but one the Sole Survivor takes up every time they go wandering with the big iron on their hip (oops, wrong game).

Of course, you can choose to say X6-88 has bigger rights and the Institute's humans too. Which is how the game's Faction choices work.

Not choosing isn't a choice in the game.

But, ironically, if it was real life, that would be a choice itself that had the same level of consequences as inaction has its own price.

All I'm saying is the the Railroad's goal isn't morally 'good'. It's selectively picking a group you like better and helping them at the cost of another, equally deserving group. You could say the scientists at the Institute are bad people, or that there are enough bad people among them to justify destroying them, but like I said, what about the synths? X6 just wants to live his life the way it is, and he's not the only one. The scale issue strikes again here, but I assume there are many like him.

So, again, I'm just saying the Railroad is hardly the token good faction here.

True but what I'm saying is that if you want to judge the Institute as a society of slavers, the liberation of them as one of ending slavery, and the Institute as a society too sick to survive you can.

It's no more a false justification than any other video games.

It's just Fallout 4 asks you, "Hold on, are you really going to go with the easy answer there?"

It's an easy one but not an incorrect one, necessarily.

In simple terms, the Evacuation of the Synths by the Railroad THEN the evacuation order probably saves more lives than any other Institute ending.

Saves, but potentially ruins them. Also, many of those lives probably won't last very long afterwards.

I'd liken it to an organization wanting to end the abuse of domestic animals by their owners - a noble goal, certainly - that goes about it by letting out all domestic animals into the wilderness. And nuking the homes. Welp, my fat cat is done for, that's for sure.

The Railroad will be there to provide for all of the Synths and help them adjust to life in the Commonwealth.

The scientists will probably have it a little harder off.

Still, as Sturges is a Synth who can construct a teleporter from junk, I doubt the Synths will want for much.

Ah yes, life in the lovely Commonwealth... or should I say the "filth that is the Commonwealth and all of its vermin"... And they never asked for it.

Thanks, Railroad.

Curie after you do her quest. Makes more sense if you do it after the Courser chip is decoded. Joining the RR to make sure you're Synth scientist friend doesn't get 187'd is definitely one way to go about the whole thing.

Yeah, 'cause that's exactly what I said.

I guess it is easier to just make up stuff to argue against rather than what people actually say, huh?

"Abusing" (enslaving) synths is not all that the Institute does. We are told, and shown, how they eradicate entire villages for trivial reasons, casually assassinate individuals as a political strategy, infiltrate and manipulate local governments and employ terror tactics to influence public opinion.

That's not true at all! There are institute synths all over the place. They've replaced quite a few people in the Commonwealth and most of the time you won't even know it. A lot of those lively characters you chat with are synths. If you do RR quests, you'll meet several peaceful synths during missions to save them. At the Institute, you'll meet many more. You're probably fixated on the Gen 1/2 soldiers the Institute litters the Commonwealth with. They kill pretty much anyone that gets in their way.

Abusing synths is all the Railroad cares about them doing, though. If there were no synths in the Institute the Railroad wouldn't give a damn about any of their other crimes. And that's what I was addressing - the morality of the Railroad as a faction.

The RR seemed like a fun faction to join. At the time anyway. I joined them because they were rumored to be the only ones fighting the institute. But even then so little is actually known about them by the commonwealth. So I found them and teamed up. They seemed to have a noble cause. helping synths escape the Institute. You know, the big bad Institute.

But then I found the Institute. And while I may not totally agree with everything the Institute does, the RR seems to be picking up a rather pointless cause. Oh you free synths... well the Institute will just make more.

When I was sent to kill Desdemona for the Institute, there should have been a "Its been a good run but its time to disband the RR" option. Instead I simply warned her what I was sent to do, but we then got interrupted by the BoS attacking. This much I don't get. I was already the enemy of the BoS but what did they have against the RR? Well now there is a nice little fire down by the airport and some new wreckage...

But now I am turned back to the decision I need to make... and honestly I'm thinking I want to kill Desdemona. She's to driven to violence over a cause that no longer seems justified. Cut the losses and walk away woman! So I'll probably walk in there, kill her and then get the heck out of there without attacking anyone else. I don't want to kill all of them. I do like them still after all but now Desdemona wants me to blow up the Institute.

To me that seems rather brutal. After all there are living families in the Institute. Seems like murder to me. i'll take her out to prevent that.

That's not actually true. What you are suggesting is like saying that people involved in the efforts to eradicate malaria are amoral sociopaths because they are not simultaneously working to end human trafficking, or child poverty, or Uwe Boll movies. It just doesn't follow. UNICEF isn't evil because it focuses its efforts. And we know, for example, that Railroad members loathe Raiders just as much as the Minutemen do. That their organization has a specific goal just does not mean they therefore "don't give a damn" about anything else.

I am of the camp that regards synths as not real people.

So for me, no slavery to be abolished exists.

With that in mind, the Railroad are at best naive and well-intentioned. At worst, willingly blind or deliberately using emotionally sensitive people to further selfish purposes. I haven't finished their quest line, but I noticed a post in this thread that seems to support this line of reasoning.

As much as I have enjoyed the gaming experience of doing Nick's quests and that the idea of a real person-synth is appealing on some levels, like Data of Star Trek, or the Replicants of Blade Runner, I find that where the rubber meets the road, I just do not buy into it.

I did some quests for them, but probably won't finish with this character. I will at some point in the future, because I am a completionist, and MUST see everything that a game has to offer.

But I spoke before of why I think their goal isn't all that noble, and it's not because it is focused. I was just responding with this to your statement that the Institute commits other evils and how that fact doesn't actually affect the Railroad's moral alignment, because they don't care about those.

My main point was, the Railroad rescues a subset of synths, and gives them potentially better lives, at the cost of ruining the lives of other synths, who are already living the way they want to. How is that noble? What makes the first group of synths more worthy of happiness than the second? H2-22 is unhappy and wants to leave, but X6-88 is perfectly content and wants his life to stay the way it is. Well, guess what, the Railroad blows up his beloved home.

And raiders are perfectly content and want their life to stay the way it is. Ditto all the slavers, Enclave members and fun folks like Vulpes Inculta. And what did we do to them?

The Institute is not morally neutral. H2-22 isn't ethically interchangeable with X6-88. Sometimes the bad guys get what's coming to them.

I care more about stopping super mutants, raiders, and feral ghouls from killing innocent people than I do the rights of glorified machines.

Well then, focus your efforts there. It's not the the Railroad is going to try to stop you if that's your plan.

I'm just using X6 as an example because he's a named character who's an example of a synth happy with their lot in life, but there are others. Like how there are bits of dialog that reference ordinary - as in non-Courser - Institute synths just wanting to go home to the Institute after finding themselves on the surface. They're not looking for the Railroad, they just want to go to their safe, clean home. And even Coursers aren't inherently bad, see Harkness.

And in any case, raiders are animals who shoot you on sight, ditto the Enclave, at least how they were gameplay-wise, so I kill them. Slavers and the Legion we could talk to, so that's what I did. X6 is a bad guy only as long as one considers the Institute bad guys as a whole, which I don't. So, yes, his 'rights' matter to me.

The Institute, we are told, sends out gen-1s to eradicate entire villages in the search for spare parts. They assassinate absolutely innocent people in order to infiltrate communities as a matter of routine. Your bad guys ethical bar may need some adjustment.

That may be so, but that still only reflects on the morality (if one believes synths to even be capable of it) of a single synth among many who find the Institute a comfortable and secure home. And who are deprived of that home, against their will, by the Railroad's actions.

I don't have any sort of problem with that at all. If you're living with slavers, terrorists and assassins then your personal creature comforts are hardly the most important ethical issue.

On further reflection, no. We know that when you do something nice to help other people "X6 dislikes that". That's explicit character information. He's not just following orders, he's not a good guy. That is why he's with the Institute.

Like deacon says;

"If youre not doing it to fight for synths, do it to STICK IT TO THE MAN"

Than the difference is just the point of view, as I see the Railroad as a terrorist organization. But 'my terrorists, your freedom fighters' and all that, I guess.

He dislikes actions that aren't beneficial to the Institute, and he hates the surface and its dwellers in general. Regarding the first - he's loyal to his 'parent's' cause, and as for the second... I can't blame him. He doesn't approve of mindless violence or cruelty, just pragmatism.