Ok, I sided with the Dawnguard. Am I completely unable to get the freaking
heal undead spell now? If that is the case then Bethesda again shows how
stupid they can be.

Is there anywhere to get it other than buying it from that vampire Ronthil?

i dont think its stupid since Dawnguard is killing Undead and not healing them

Not as far as I'm aware.

On a side note; i fail to see how this is a stupid decision by Beth. The biggest problem with vanilla Skyrim is allowing every character access to every spell, every weapon and every quest. This is why there's absolutely no consequences whatsoever - a criticism many people have quite rightly levelled at the game. At least with Dawnguard, they've blocked the player from obtaining certain spells, weapons, items and quests depending on which faction they opt for.

It's the way it should be and a step in the right direction.

Very shallow thinking. Dawnguard dlc itself is suppose to add additonal spells, armor, etc. to the game. Not to mention there are many many characters
that people will play.

Example, such as myself, a necromancer that is not evil. So, how am I suppose to heal my undead if I can not get access to the new spells that the dlc
added to the game if I side with the Dawnguard?

There should have been a way for any character regardless of side to get all those new spells period.

okay yes good thinking i didnt remember about good characters (with evil sides ) but you have to realize that Dawnguard is more an Warrior "Guild" then a Mage and they only want to kill "Dead" and not healing them.

I disagree. They fell back to a stupid way of doing things. Vanilla Skyrim was a step in the right direction.

Not everyone wants to play bookoos of characters through the same stuff just to get this or that.

They allowed the character to get, Conjure Boneman, Mistman, Wrathman, and Necromantic healing without
joining the vampires. So, why all of a sudden not Heal undead?

Like I said in another post, some of us necromancers are not evil and should be allowed to get every
necromantic spell in the game. Vampires are not the only folks that know how to do this type of magic.

Necromancy in of itself is not evil. It is also not a banned practise. Dawnguard are vampire hunters and there
are more than just warriors that are part of that group.

Necromancy is clearly evil. No lawabiding citizen would hesitate to turn on a necromancer. Necromancy is something you'd expect from renegade mages and from the Dark Brotherhood.

Tell that to the College of Winterhold. I guess those guys are evil too.

There is a reason why the mages of Winterhold don't go around summoning undead in public -- they'll tell you the same.
People are terrified of mages who bring the dead back to life -- it's sacriledge -- Some believe necromancers go around stealing corpses and even murdering to get the bodies they need for their practice -- this may be true in some cases and people have come to expect this of everyone who knows even a tiny bit of necromancy. And if you've done the quest "Who cried Wolf?" or what it's called -- you'll see why their fear is very much justified.

People fear what they do not understand. Not to mention, people stereotype all the time.
Just because people have a belief that something is evil does not make it so.

When it's all said and done, what does all of this have to do with a necromancer not
being able to learn Heal Undead without being a vampire?

The whole point is, you should not be forced to become a vampire to learn one
Restoration/necromantic spell.

You can find the Necromantic Healing tome in Dimhollow Crypt no matter which side you choose to support.

The above argument is entirely based on an incorrect assumption that you can only get the spell if you're a vampire, which made me chuckle a bit

Not talking about the spell necromantic healing, but the spell heal undead.

okay i see this is turning into a necormancer war calm down all of you have a point

Love me love my zombie

According to Imperial law necromancy is not a crime, there is nothing evil about raising the dead. However many necromancers do things such as grave robbing in order to get corpses to raise, and things like that are criminal, but none the less, an adventurer could very well be a good necromancer since they can get the corpses of people such as bandits and therefore not be comitting any evil acts.

Anyone who brushes aside the former humanity of a corpse and views them merely as a resource to be harvested and used runs serious risk of being a psychopath. Reanimated corpses are in a state of pain, forced to attack those who they do not want to -- they thank you when they die.

That said, you have Necromantic Healing and can heal your zombies and Serana, so I fail to see what your beef is.

Clearly a reanimated corpse saying "thank you" or anything else is another screwup by Bethesda.

A corpse never had former humanity. The soul that inhabited that body is long gone unless you trapped
it in a soul gem. Which I wonder if you have used soul gems or not?

Where is your proof that states reanimated corpses are in pain being forced to attack those they do
not want to? Hell, the dead thralls I have are bandits that tried to kill me.

I couldn't care less about Serana. My beef is the fact that my character can not get the spell Heal Undead
now that he killed all of the vampires. A spell which any necromancer that studies the Restoration school
should be able to learn without being a vampire. The only place to get that spell is buying it from a vampire
apparently, which I did not know at the time. It should have been available just like all the other spells.

This was true in Oblivion:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Necromancer are mages who specialize in the http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Conjuration of undead creatures. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Undead servants populate their lairs, and they always summon additional undead to aid them in combat. If you can kill the necromancers quickly, they are a good source of potions and scrolls.
The http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mages_Guild has banned the practice of http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Necromancy, forcing many practitioners into hiding. The guild's disdain is so great that when wearing Necromancer's Robes inside one of the Mages Guild buildings will cause the resident members to ignore the wearer; they may even become hostile if the robes are worn around them too long.

This is true in Skyrim:
Necromancers are mages who specialize in the conjuring of http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Undead_(Skyrim) http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Creatures_(Skyrim), a forbidden http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Magic. They usually have raised undead lurking inside their lairs.

If you still believe necromancy is allowed, then you're an idiot.

That was inappropriate and un-called for.

I shall respond however.

Just about every mage, if not every mage, in Skyrim that sells spell tomes, sells
spells to reanimate corpses into zombies. That is a fact.

The archmage of the College of Winterhold himself tells you that no research is
forbidden. He just does not want you to accidently harm other students. That is a fact.

Phines Gestor, the master of conjuration at the College of Winterhold tells you
that the summoning of undead is perfectly fine. He also says necromancy is a tool
to be used. That is a fact.

The Mage Guild does not exist anymore and Necromancy was never outlawed at
the College of Winterhold. That is a fact.

My, but you're defensive.

The College is separate from the land's collective morality. Even if you believe that reanimating a corpse is morally sound, you'll be hard-pressed to find a Nord who thinks it perfectly alright to play with a family member's dead body.

This is why we have burial practices, the belief that the dead should be treated with the same respect as when they were alive, the same humanity. In the real world, grave robbers and cannibals, profaners of the belongings and flesh of the dead, are, to put it mildly, heavily censured. Those who are used in scientific experiments (the closest real-world anology to Elder Scrolls' magical experiments) have willingly allowed themselves to be.

There's something frightening about a man who would casually turn what was once a man into a weapon to save himself, or to kill.

I find it amusing that you refuse to join the vampires for your coveted spell, those who require only blood, not death (though many revel in their power to the extremes of cannibalism), yet believe yourself more virtuous for killing a man and taking all his remains for your own use. You don't even leave behind a body for burial.

***

Please tell me you aren't so vain as to believe the writers of the world have "screwed up" and that your personal ideas are superior.

***

There is a mage found in a particular Nordic Ruin who has lured travelers there; he kills them with a trap and makes them ghosts, who stalk the ruin, crying "I don't want to do this!" or "I'm sorry!" to all those they attack.

Exactly

Any sane person would run away -- screaming.
Any normal citizen would expect the guards to kill a necromancer -- no questions asked.

Yes. To me it just seems like this person is trolling... or spamming -- whatever you wish to call it.
If there really is any seriousness behind the posts, I certainly don't understand the problem. I doubt the majority of the forumites do -- there is no problem. Well, you're just not happy with a decision the devs made -- one thast the majority agrre is correct -- and you whine about it.

As said by so many others, so many times before -- Necromancy is evil. There is no excuse for it. You use it, you can expect trouble with the upstanding and morally righteous.

It would appear that I am not the vain one.

A few people a majority does not make.

Whether you folks want to tout morality, which morality differs for everyone, the practise of necromancy
is not illegal. That is a fact that you can not dispute. My character can walk through cities with dead
thralls and no one attacks him, not even the guards. Do you know why? It is because it is not illegal.

I am not at all disputing the fact that people fear necromancy. People mouth off to my character all the
time about it. Again that does not make it illegal. Fear often causes people to behave in foolish ways.

Yes, my character is better than those vampires. After all, my character does not want to block out the
Sun which would ruin the planet. He does not go around feasting on people. He has also yet to kill
someone that has not tried to kill him first.

The entire point of the thread, which you people derailed because you have a hard on against necromancy
it seems, was that any necromancer should be able to learn all necromancy related spells without
becoming a vampire. Those spells are not additions to the game just to be able to heal that stupid npc
Serana. Whom got on my nerves somthing fierce, by the way. Those spells were added because
necromancy was severly lacking.

Yes, Bethesda did screw up. I'm sure as all the other spells, they must have simply forgotten to place
that one where anyone can get it. After all, what is the point of allowing characters on either side to
get all of those spells except one.

Far be it from me to want my necromancer to have all necromantic related spells to flesh him out. How then
will he be a master necromancer if he can't learn all of the spells?

I guess destruction magic is evil since you burn people alive or freeze them to death. Oh yeah, illusion
magic is evil as well. After all you take control of live people and force them to kill each other. Let's see
alteration magic yo paralyze them and have your way with them. Yep, all magic is evil it would seem.

If you want the knowledge perhaps you shouldn't have killed the ones who have the knowledge.

This was the best post in this thread, and since I cannot say it any better, I'm going to quote it so you can read it again:

not reading everything but go to the NPC, hit them with calm, buy the spell from em.