With enchanting, you can only zero-cost two schools of magic, correct? So if you wanted to be an all around mage, wouldn't you still need a boatload of magicka?

No matter how much you polish your wood it won't turn into gold. Trust me. I've been trying for 20 years.

I have like 740 magicka on my pure mage character. it is very useful if you dont want to use those cost reduction enchantments. I am an all-around mage as well.

This is wrong.

Unless you spend mass perks in enchanting this will not be the case- also you will have to sacrifice slots of your items to cost reducers when you may not need to if you level magica. I think you based this assumption off the idea of a pure mage, but that is not a good example of the population at large.

In fact- after a while health starts to become silly since at about 300-400hp and max reduction you won't die unless you really want to.

They're not push-overs on Adept either.

Nice.

Mass lots of perks? Would you mean 10?

Enchantment perk foundation:
Enchanter 5, Fire Enchanter 1, Frost Enchater 1, torm Enchanter 1, Exra Effect 1. Insightful Enchanter.

With these 10 perks invested, you can then stack magicka reduction effects on your items up to 2 schools at no cost, which positioned the value of magicka to worthless, thus I am quite sure I would not be investing in magicka.

These eenchantment perks are the minium, you could take it much further in terms of the power in items with more investment in alchmy.

I am quite sure I would not need any magicka, my main interest would be about finding out the value of stamina right now, otherwise, all to Health.

ok 10? 1/5 of the perks most people will ever get (since the game will top for most characters at around 50-55) Not to mention your shortsightedness when considering you will not have 100 enchanting and 10 spare perks to spend at the beginning of the game. If you wanted to play a mage from the beginning this isn't going to work.

I suppose you could raise your character using a complete melee style to level, then at high level make your gear and become a mage, but that is a fake character IMO. I am sure there are people with the time for that and level 81 characters, most don't.

For Stamina decision just try to decide these things:
1) How important are Power attacks with larger weapons? Smaller/lighter weapons use less.
2) How far/long will you want to Sprint?
3) How much stuff do you want/need to carry?

In what you are saying, the investment of magicka would only benefit at the start of the game as a mage.

Even at level 50 as you think most people would play the game at, your investment in enchanting and alchemy would already make you a more combat effective character from item crafting.

Here is a character design made from a knowledgeable member of the forum:

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#24343

As you can see, it can be achieved at level 27 with plenty of perks to support her combat skills.

Beside this, in most RPG, there is a tradition that the combat power of your characters is highly dependent on your items, for Skyrim, what crafting can offer could take you to a whole different level then relying on found items and your perks.

I personally don't look at the start of the game as a mage, level 27 or even 30 is easy and quickly archiveable, I don't think I am the one who is shortsighted here.

You dont play "at" level 50- level 50-55 is usually the sum of a characters skyrim playthrough. It is the end, not the start. To not do any- or even most of the quests before that level would be insanely boring.

It is clear you don't understand my argument, and that is fine. Your posted example is not a mage, at all. You can make a 2-hander/ enchanter character and switch to a mage halfway through your game. Yes it "works" is it genuine? not for me. It is the same as the old argument in favor of heavy armor over light armor for sneak characters. The old addage was that heavy armor was just as good as light for sneaking because at 70 skill you would get the 0 weight perk for it. That doesn't work for me since you are what you play in this game. If you can't sneak for more than half your game- then you aren't a sneak build.

See it is fine if you want to just scour some random dungeon to level yourself over and over to activate your enchanting perks and become a mage at 30- but its no different from me taking my old vampire character (level 60- done with game) and enchanting him up some 2-hand buffs and getting a greatsword. Yeah- I have that stuff, but I wasn't a 2-hand character- I did the game another way, and that is what I was... Mercer is dead, skyrim is restored, ect ect. its done. Again- if you are avoiding all quests so you can build this optimized mage, well that is your thing I guess, but I think you are in the minority in the "this is fun" dept.

You are right- shortsighted was backwards, farsighted was better.

Now- if we are just judging this thread on the merit that you say don't level magic since you can get the costs to 0, well then that was common knowledge for a couple months now. If you are actually "playing" a mage, you would probably want some magic in the beginning.

I suppose we play the game differently. I just wouldn't find it fun grindng levels so that I can stomp quests at late level with no effort/tactics/decisions/thinking/ect.

I vehemently disagree. Falmer Gloomlurker archers were hitting me for over 100 damage on expert, and they aren't even close to the toughest archers. I had 230 armor from a flesh spell + mage armor perk (Better Magic mod). Another character of mine had to take on 4 Shadowmasters and 2 Gloomlurkers simultaneously in Liar's Retreat. I had over 700 HP and was at the armor cap and I still almost died.

My opinion: warriors put 5 or so levels into stamina (and even that is optional) and the rest into health. Mages I go about 2:1 magicka to health; all magicka and I get one-shot all the time. I use Vegetable Soup and Elsewyr Fondue for the rest of my needs.

I suppose this is more of a personal character thing. I don't get archered, at all really- and especially by blind-ass-falmer. Sure it is probably different for someone without stealth. 700 hp is an insane amount btw. 60 levels in hp alone?

Magicka is essential if you use more than two schools of magic, which most mages do, including mine

Armor and shield enchants got me that high. I thought I couldn't die. And yeah, I rarely use stealth anymore, I found it boring one-hitting everything. I have gotten pretty good at dodging arrows, but when you close distance on them, you can get torn up. The Deathlord archer in Lost Valkygg (also one in Wolfskull Cave and Volunruud at level 40 or so) can hit you for about 250-300 at least.

Oh and LOL at getting shot by blind creatures

I understand you just fine, though I don't value it or agree, it does not mean I don't understand. I do appreciate for your effort so no offense there.

The linked character design is not a mage, but you can switch those perks into whatever you want beside the enchantment set, it was aim as an example to tell you that you don't need to be a high level to benefit from crafting, I did not know you needed instruction to think/ switch around.

Your whole argument is based on two things, the game progress and your subjective enjoyment through the game, these are very personal opinions and it's not something I am looking for right now.

In contrast, I am looking for like minded players who could share their experience on the value of Stamina and Health at high level or end game.