No K?

/rest is of course quite solid

well considering most users........ and lets be general here.... many of them aren't going to overclock so why invest the extra cash in a k version when that sum of cash can be directed towards better components... such as moving from a 6870 1gb to a 69502gb which will have a much bigger impact now and in the future than a simple k revision which only gives you overclocking potential.

You can still overclock a standard 2500.. you just have limitations to work around.

Its what, like 20$ more The option to very easily option to get upto a 50% gain in CPU vs a 10-15% price increase I think its pretty worth while. But I do agree if the user has 0 intention of ever overclocking then I suppose they could better spend that 20$ on painkillers when they down the road realize how much more powerful they could have made the system

2500 and 2500k are not the same, while the non-k has a locked multiplier, it also has more features, more advanced virtualization(good thing for gaming on a virtual machine) but also has "Trusted Execution Technology" implemented. It is a build-in DRM on a CPU level. Its not quite active for an average user, but still, no reason to get it willingly. At the same time is a potential security hole for all sorts of malicious code using it to do whatever the hell they want. Sony and its rootkits would love everybody having this tech in their PCs. Same applies to the non K 2600.

either way.. i didn't mention the K because from the few websites i saw.... some of them take a 50-100 dollar jump in price.. and for what?

Actually newegg.com doesn't even list the 2500K.. it just jumps straight from 2500 to the 2600/2600k/2700/etc.

as for ncknck

default generally don't have some of that functionality enabled... at least with the motherboard i recommended.

but i'm not seeing much for details on what your talking about... far as what I've googled thus far, it appears that whatever the 2500 has... the K revision has more of, so what you speak of should be present on both.

no need to google, just check Intel's site for http://ark.intel.com/products/52209/Intel-Core-i5-2500-Processor-(6M-Cache-3_30-GHz) and http://ark.intel.com/products/52210/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-Processor-(6M-Cache-3_30-GHz)

yes i see those yes... but i'm talking about the security risks your speaking of or potential issues.

Stuff that most people aren't going to have to deal with.

There was a fuss about that drm when the processors first came out last year, but I haven't heard of anybody being affected. I think it was included in anticipation of streaming video of some sort that is supposed to become the standard over the next couple years? Been a while since I've seen any news on it.

Ah, http://www.h-online.com/newsticker/news/item/Intel-s-Trusted-Execution-Technology-hacked-in-the-alpha-stage-739579.html
If its possible by one person, its possible by many. From my understanding of the article what happens is that the hacker code uses above functionality, and since its running at the lowest possible level, to treat the PC as a virtual machine (lol) becoming impossible to detect, and do fun stuff. The relevant quote is probably: "..almost no practical importance, since there is scarcely a computer in use that takes advantage of TXT". Obviously this is about to change. Not that im against it. Not the first time Intel tries the funny DRM stuff, failed every time.

i just remember back to the intel Pentium 3 fiasco in which people were screaming about the serial number or something that they included that would make you a hack magnet or something... that turned into a bunch of overly paranoid garbage and was a disable-able function.

How about these.

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=3395059&pid=1218399239183&catId=abcat0501000&ev=prodView

http://m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-620/pd?oc=dddnjn1&model_id=inspiron-620&un_jtt_v_backAncor=un_05

The HP Pavillion has a Nvidia 520. Really not meant for games.

If you can hold out a few more months, you can count on ivy bridge coming out around april. Even if they dont perform up to standards you will get a 25/600k for a lower price when that launches. Plus kepler also releases Q1/2 of 2012, along with price drops for the new radeon 7 series.

Intel are supposed to be dropping some gpu-less sandybridge chips "2550k" etc also.

I strongly advise not to buy already build PC from HP, Dell and many others, because they insert some parts from vendors with which they have contracts and this is not good quality components in many cases. Let me describe the truth about this. First of all in such PC you will find horrible buggy HDD from Seagate (may be you don't know, but last years this company svcks) and the data will be corrupted and lost very soon. Your CPU fan will drive you in to madness with noise, it must be replaced (at least for overclocking, but i don't see any sence to buy CPU from intel without oveclocking). PSU wattage will be not enough for modern powerful videocard, it will work year or two, but then your PC will start to reboot while playing games (power degradation with time), so at least pay attention to PSU wattage and get 600-700W or even more to be sure that after 2 years it will have at least 500W of power (vendor also matters a lot). Motherboard in such PCs is something you don't need, not enough slots for additional devices like sound card or tv tuner or they will be not available because of videocard size. Also you can't install anything in your PC without loosing warranty, so it's kind of console then. Better buy fine oem components and pay specialist to get this all in to case.

Regarding hardware for games like Skyrim and in general:
Use 2 HDD drives, one big for data, 1-2 Tb capacity. Highly recommend Hitachi as one of the best by quality and Scythe noise reducing devices (there are several, i got one for 4 HDD and don't hear them any more). Another one HDD must be smaller by size and faster (no "green" models) and it's for WinOS installed and some programs. Dual HDD allow to increase performance and easier to handle any problems, but not very neccecesary in most cases.
*CPU - intel only, AMD is gone from market officially and slower. Don't buy high end models, they don't cost that money, instead get 2500K or 2600K models for overclocking and performance will be fine.
*RAM (system memory) - for overclocking it's different a bit, ask for help someone first and say it's for Intel PC will be used. AMount of RAM 8-16 (more only if you have a time to play with some tricky software like RAM hard drive, to boost performance).
*Videocard - don't buy high-end models, better to buy another one after 1-2 years. Recommend to stay away from two GPU at single card models or SLI/CrossFire, because performance and compability issues do not cost that for playing at single display (seems you are not planning 3 displays view). And my personal, DON'T BUY ATI/AMD card, because their drivers are very buggy, NVidia also, but difference is very huge. By performance, ATI slower unless they will release updated drivers for some specific game, but it's ridiculous to await new driver every time. Also NVidia have hardware accelerated physics (supported by some games) which improve performance in times.
There are many other problems in PC, but i just want to say that you will not be happy with PC anyway and how much, depends from your first choice.

I don't necessarily consider myself excessively computer savvy (insofar as really understanding the underlying architectures of computers), but I was in somewhat of a similar situation before I purchased my own gaming rig this past summer. My advice...

1. From your posts (no offense), I gather that you are somewhat leery of assembling your own computer. My guess is that since you likely haven't built a computer before, you don't really want to be responsible for putting the whole thing together and picking compatible parts and the like. I was in a similar situation. I ended up buying a fully assembled computer from an online retailer.
Note: this company was more geared towards gaming computers than dell will be. I live in Canada, and bought mine from NCIX.com. I could definitely have saved a bit by pricematching carefully and picking up deals, but dealing with one retailer, and having an included warranty is a nice bonus. In my case, this has allowed me to transition into owning a desktop and working with its insides. I've overclocked my CPU, swapped out RAM (had to do a bit of troubleshooting), installed wireless card, etc. This isn't complicated at all, but since I don't have any friends who habitually build gaming computers, I didn't want to dive in without anyone to pull me out if anything went wrong.
tldr: if you aren't comfortable building a rig all by yourself (though most people say it is actually quite easy), check out some retailers that specialize in gaming rigs. why?
a) Dells or other similar companies build computers for non-gaming, internet-surfing consumers. This means they will skimp in certain areas in order to save money (why put in parts that your customers won't use and cost you more?) These areas include
i)graphics card (GPU): this is REALLY IMPORTANT because your GPU is a huge part of your gaming performance. Graphics cards don't matter for people who only surf the internet, so the graphics cards Dell provides are lower-middle class at best. Sure, they may be able to play Skyrim, but not maxed, or with graphics mods. And 2 years down the line, you won't be able to run games any more. This means you will either have to purchase a new graphics card NOW, or have to upgrade your computer a few years later, which wouldn't be an issue, except for...
ii) The power Supply (PSU). Companies like Dell use weak power supplies along with their mediocre graphics cards. It doesn't make sense to stick a powerful PSU into a computer that doesn't draw much power. This becomes an issue if you want to get a better graphics card (which requires more wattage). The 350-450 watt Dell PSU just can't power these cards, so upgrading just got a whole lot more expensive.
iii) the case: Companies like Dell use their own cases. They are of decent (but not great) quality, and are obviously intended for non-gamers. This means sticking in a big graphics card often WONT FIT. Your upgrade path is hampered if you don't consider it from the start.
tldr (real): Buying a computer that isn't intended for gamers can work, but it will never be optimal, and in the long run, you will end up having to pay extra to cover your traces. You are better to get a computer designed for what you are doing. Though Alienwares do have good specifications, they cost more than they should. You get a good computer, but pay too much for it, so you are better off getting the same computer at a lower cost elsewhere.

2. Look up component reviews and get acclimatized with available parts. Hate to say this, but life is a lot easier if you know approximately what parts are available, and how they stack up. What is the consensus processor? what GPUs seem to perform well for the money? Are new, better parts coming out within a month? This takes a bit of work, but is well worth it. Sites like Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, etc. Benchmark sites can show you how things perform. Better still, sites like Tom's often have articles suggesting computer builds at different price points. You can model your choice off of their recommendations.

3. Figure out your requirements and expectations. Do you expect to upgrade a part every year or so? Keep the computer the same way for 5 years before buying a completely new one? This may change what you want to buy. If you are OK with upgrading, it doesn't make sense to overpay now for top of the line components when you can upgrade in a year or two and get the same performance for half the cost. However, if you want the computer to last without modification(always difficult), you may need to splurge a bit. Typically, there are sweet spots in price/performance. For example, the 2500k processor performs fantastically (along with large overclocking headroom), and costs significantly less than the 2600k. Anything over those processors was overkill. Many websites show price/performance graphs and give recommendations.

4. For Skyrim:
a) processor: Skyrim isn't too taxing on the processor in MOST cases. The exception to this is in certain areas which seem to stress a single core quite heavily. For this reason, places like Dragonsreach and Markarth give almost everyone large framerate drops. The best solution to this problem is to have a CPU with a high clockspeed. For example, I have a 2500k at 4.1 GHz. This is a minor overclock for the 2500k, but has been shown to help. In 95% of the cases, though, Skyrim won't really tax modern gaming CPUs. However, you want to get a good processor because it is likely a part that you won't want to upgrade for a while.
RAM: memory won't really be too much of an issue. Almost all computers sold now come with around 8 GB. I would try to stick to 8 GB or so. 4 GB will suffice, but at your price point there is no reason to cut corners here. 16 GB is excessive in almost all cases.
c) Graphics card: Skyrim on its own isn't incredibly demanding, but mods can bring down the best of machines. Especially when it comes to high rez textures, graphics power is essential. One of my only regrets with my rig is that my SLI 560 ti's have only 1 GB VRAM. This is fine for the vanilla game, but high resolution textures use a ton of VRAM. I would suggest going for something around 1.5-2 GBs to be safe here. VRAM isn't the only factor by any means, so check some benchmarks. the 6950 2 GB seems a solid choice, or the 560 ti 2 GB, but you should also look at the release date for the next generation Nvidia (Kepler I think), and that of AMD.
d) Storage: There is a shortage of hard drives at the moment due to a natural disaster in Thailand. This means hard drives are currently more expensive than they have been for a while. You may have to skimp on capacity and speed in the meantime. You should also consider whether you want to include an SSD in your rig. SSDs perform very well as boot drives (for your operating system), and for launching programs. They are incredibly fast, but this speed is offset by their high cost per gigabyte. For this reason, many gamers build new rigs with a lower capacity SSD, along with a larger (but slower) storage drive. This allows for fast speed, along with more storage space. For Skyrim, any drive will suffice. SSDs will decrease load times, but will have little to no effect on frame rate.

5. My Rig and What You can Learn: I bought my rig for games like Skyrim, BF3, Arkham City, and the like. My budget was slightly higher (around 1700 canadian), but could be brought lower depending on choices. The specs and reasons are as follows
MOBO: MSI p67 (forget model offhand): works with my 2500k, not much to say.

CPU: intel 2500k (overclocked to 4.1 ghz): This is a great processor, the consensus choice for a while. Still probably the best value.

RAM: 8 GB Mushkin ddr3 (dual channel): This is another no-brainer. For the most part, RAM doesn't really influence too much in the way of gaming performance. Just don't undershoot too much, or go way overboard needlessly.

GPU: 2x 560 ti in SLI : This is the controversial part. Buying 2 mid range cards has both advantages and disadvantages. My 560 ti's perform better than the top of the line 580 for the same price, but there are upsides and downsides.
upsides: more performance for the dollar, SLI scaling is much better now than ever before, if you want go the multi-monitor route, you need at least 2 cards (if using nvidia).
downsides: scaling is great for some games, bad for others. In general, older games scale worse in SLI. This normally isn't a problem, as older games are less demanding, but games like modded Oblivion may not perform as well in SLI as with an equivalent single card. Also, SLI performance often improves with new drivers, but these drivers are not always released promptly. SLI can also give headaches occasionally, so single cards require less troubleshooting. Buying a powerful single card now also allows you to buy another down the line to improve performance. However, this usually isn't practical because new cards have come out, so it makes more sense to buy more recent models than to SLI an obsolete card.
Note: one thing I regret is getting cards with 1 GB of VRAM. Though 1 GB is sufficient for most games now, maxing out BF3 will use over 1 GB VRAM, and modded Skyrim also uses a lot of VRAM. Though my cards are powerful, I may run into increasing amounts of problems later on when consistently hitting my vram cap.

Storage: 2x 1 TB Caviar Black : I bought these drives when they were cheaper, and did so specifically because I record footage using fraps. I run my OS and games off one drive, while recording to the other. The default configuration was an SSD boot drive and a large storage drive. This second option would likely be better for your needs.

I apologize for the giant post. It took a while to write, but I hope it helps with a couple things. Don't be scared and buy a bestbuy computer ill-suited to your needs only to regret it later. Research a bit, and everything will be fine. If you have any questions, there are tons of people willing to help. Don't take their word as gospel, but many people are willing to help.

An Xbox 360

Im a 1st time PC builder about 5 months ago. It was easy as, the only problems i ran into was attaching my fan to the fan sink since it required some strength to snap together (nothing at all), and getting confused for an hour over the poorly written instructions for my PSU to then realize it was as clear as day on the side of the box it came in.

Also, to make things cheaper, you might want to get a GFX card later, and just use the inbuilt GFX of the i5 2500k. I am and i have no problems, im running Skyrim fine on mostly medium settings. You just need a motherboard that supports this like mine in my sig.

$1500 will get you a really powerful machine. Of course it you built it yourself, you'd get a better option rather than a prebuilt for that budget. And there really isn't much of a good reason to buy an Alienware machine. Their gaming desktops are so ridiculously overpriced...you're paying hundreds for a silly logo. Avoid. Internal components are not much different from other Boutique Custom PC websites.



$2100 for a dell? Don't care what graphics or sound card that may have been, but sorry to say you got ripped off even if that was 5 years ago. Been building and shopping for PCs for years and I do recall that time period. $1500 at that time would have gotten you something much more powerful than any dell.

You're better off with a new PC...outdated technology and likely limited on how far you can upgrade anyways.


And I take you need the operating system as well. If you really don't want to build your own....

This would have been a good choice, but out of stock:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229269


Can alternatively go here:
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_Z68_Configurator/

Configure like so....



Case: CoolerMaster Elite 430 Mid-Tower Gaming Case with Side Panel Window [+7]
Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default case fans
CPU: Intel? Core? i5-2500K 3.30 GHz 6M Intel Smart Cache LGA1155 (All Venom OC Certified)
Venom Boost Fast And Efficient Factory Overclocking: No Overclocking
Cooling Fan: CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo Gaming Cooling Fan [+4]
Coolant for Cyberpower Xtreme Hydro Water Cooling Kits: Standard Coolant
Motherboard: * [CrossFireX] Asus P8Z68-V LX Intel Z68 Chipset DDR3 ATX Mainboard
Intel Smart Response Technology for Z68: None
Memory: 8GB (2GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti 1.2GB 16X PCIe Video Card [+282] (EVGA GeForce 448 Cores Classified Powered by NVIDIA)
Freebies: FREE Game Coupon Batman: Arkham City
Power Supply Upgrade: * 650 Watts - Corsair CMPSU-650TXV2 80 Plus Power Supply [+77]
Hard Drive: 1TB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)
Optical Drive: 24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive (BLACK COLOR)
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
LCD Monitor: 24" Widescreen 1920x1080 Asus VS247H-P LCD [+157]
Network: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
Keyboard: Xtreme Gear (Black Color) Multimedia/Internet USB Keyboard
Mouse: XtremeGear Optical USB 3 Buttons Gaming Mouse
Flash Media Reader/Writer: None [-3]
Internal USB Port: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
Operating System: Microsoft? Windows 7 Professional [+135] (64-bit Edition)
Service: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Rush Service: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 10~15 BUSINESS DAYS


That has pretty much everything. Should be right around $1500 after ship charges. If you live outside California, should be tax free. Will max the game if curious

it is all so wrong!
if you have about 400$, you could buy a pc that easily renders skyrim. perhabs not with everything maxed (aa and friends). do not waste any thoughts on caches or anytrhing. it loses efficiency if it gets bigger and you do not realy need it that much (4mb+ is enough). a pc in this category can easily beat current consoles (but not the comming generation)
if you save about 400$ for your next pc, you are ready for tes VI.

ps: try to get a gigabyte mainboard. overclocking is not needed with current multicore cpus

With $400 you are probably going to get a PC with integrated graphics or a low end video card. I would say the minimum for a good gaming system is ~$650 or $700. I disagree about overclocking as well. Overclocking will net you some nice performance boosts, especially in single threaded applications.

When you buy a comp from scratch, buy a damn good one.. it will last for years.

Thanks for all the help. I actually called a friend who I forgot builds computers
For a living and he is going to set me up. He's saying eveythjng you guys are. I'm really excited. I've been really interested in buying one for a while now. I'm going wait about 3 or 4 months and the way ill have 2000 usd to do it. I guess my friend said there is some great hardware coming out around the corner so I can get that if I wait. Or get the year old stuff cheaper. How was I using a console this whole time. Pc is just awesome. I can't wait to get Oblivion and try out all the mods. I'll keep my ps3 for the exclusive and casual gaming.

I download Minecraft just to see and I'll say that it's gonna take while getting familiar with a pc. Playing on a computer seem really hard right now but in the end I know it'll be way more accurate and better.

Awesome. There are always going to be some disappointments (like new releases obviously intended for consoles), but you will definitely enjoy it. In terms of mouse and keyboard vs controllers, you will adjust over time. The first little bit is quite hard, that doesn't last long. I would say cap your build at 2000 or so. Anything over that will almost inevitably be overkill. For motivation, you can keep any money you save for upgrades or games. Enjoy!

The problem with "new hardware around the corner" is that there is always something coming up. You'll never get the perfect rig. (or that cheaper and older one). Want now? Buy now.


Ha, very true.

Ok, so I'm going to get flamed hard for posting this.....

Don't buy an Intel proc just because the "devoted fans" tell you to, an AMD will do just as well and is cheaper.

Also, I have always (except once) used AMD/Nvidia configurations and have never had any stablility problems.

(I do have a comp with Intel/Nvidia configuration and it works perfectly fine too.)

P.s. Laptops are a waste of money.


I play most of my PC games with a wireless Xbox 360 controller.