Help Wanted: Trying to get a stable build together : IV

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:57 pm

Good afternoon,

I mentioned the other day (in another thread) that I might soon be ready to try a new build. Well, night before last I managed to throw my back out, so it appears I have a little time on my hands...

Here's the deal: I had a pretty darn stable FCOM build there for a while. But somewhere along the way things became unstable, and now I can't play 15 minutes without a CTD (outdoors, anyway... cities and dungeons are much more stable). Clearly, this is unacceptable. I have returned to the point I was at last year where I spend all my time trying to fix my game instead of playing it.

So, one more time, I'm ready to try this again. And this time, I am willing to give up some stuff if it means I will have a more stable build to work with. For example, maybe FCOM is just asking too much... perhaps I should just go with OOO + MMM? Would that make much of a difference? Also, I would really like to run Open Cities, but every time I try to run it my game gets unstable. Could that be because I have so much else going on? Or is it just my machine? I don't know... and by the way, these are rhetorical questions... not necessarily looking for specific answers.

What I am looking for is something stable. Ideally, OOO + MMM and Open Cities would be what I would like to start with and build upon. To that I would want to add things like Supreme Magicka, Enhanced Economy (actually, most of theNiceOne's mods), some more of Arthmoor's mods (his towns and RAEVWD), and all of the OBSE stuff. Cobl is also necessary IHMO.

I am also willing to sacrifice some aesthetics... Right now I am running a few mesh/texture replacers. I'm willing to give up most/all of them except the body replacers (HGEC and Robert's), though they too could go if it really would improve things.

Finally, I'd like to hear about things that people are confident about through experience. Now, I realize this is a sticky point, and before anyone gets upset with me, let me explain. I have spent the last few months trying things, and this is where I have ended up. I'm not really in the mood to experiment anymore... I just want to play the game. So all I ask is this: please don't make suggestions unless you yourself know that what you are suggesting actually works and is stable over time. That's the biggest part for me... I've had things work for a week or two and then break down. So, if you just installed a mod a few days ago and haven't had any trouble, that's great... but it's not what I'm looking for. This time around, my focus is solely on stability. Everything else is secondary. Well, to a point, that is... no mods at all (except for the UOPs) would be the most stable. I get that, but there has to be a middle ground somewhere, doesn't there? Maybe?

So there you go. I decided to start this thread instead of a threads like "FCOM vs. OOO+MMM". It just made more sense to me. I'm going to post my current LO at the end of this for a frame of reference.

Oh yeah, I know about TES4POSitive, so no need to direct me to Tomlong's site... I am already there! (Thanks Tomlong!)

Hope this is clear enough... I tried to wait until I wasn't so frustrated with my game to write this!

Thanks in advance,
veg

LO:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Cybiades.esm  [Version 2.0]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]07  VASE - core.esm08  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]09  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0A  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0B  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0C  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]0D  NNWAEMaster.esm0E  CM Partners.esm0F  CustomSpellIcons.esm10  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.7]11  DLCShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 1.4.0]++  Shivering OOO.esp12  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp14  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp15  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]16  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]17  Atmospheric Loading Screens - Random Quotes.esp++  Symphony of Violence.esp18  WindowLightingSystem.esp19  Adonnays Ranger Coats.esp1A  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp1B  Ayleid Loot EXtension - OOO Dungeons.esp1C  ClocksOfCyrodiil.esp1D  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.2]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]++  RealWalk.esp1E  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 4.2.1]1F  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.4]20  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0.2]21  STHotkeys.esp22  DLCHorseArmor.esp**  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]23  DLCOrrery.esp**  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]24  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp25  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp26  Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp27  BlackLuster.esp28  Forestlight Armor.esp29  Thieves Arsenal.esp2A  XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp**  Armamentium female.esp2B  DANOWeaponsWarMammothMount.esp2C  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2D  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp2E  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]2F  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]30  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp31  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]33  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp34  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]35  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon.esp  [Version 0.5]**  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]36  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]**  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]37  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]38  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]39  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3A  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3B  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  VASE - Cyrodiil for MMM.esp++  VASE - Vanilla SI.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]3F  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]40  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]41  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions4MMM.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]**  FCOM_Archery.esp**  FCOM_Archery_Armamentarium.esp++  FCOM_Archery_Artifacts.esp**  FCOM_Archery_RealSwords.esp++  FCOM_Archery_MMM_H&C.esp++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]**  Fransfemale.esp42  Geomancy & Gem Dust OOO.esp43  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp44  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.8]45  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - EE patch.esp  [Version 1.0]**  ArtifactsFemaleArmor.esp++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]46  AutoMagicon_Cobl.esp47  GlenvarCastle.esp48  LostSwordOfTheAylied.esp49  LostSwordOfTheAylied - OBSE Add-On.esp4A  MountainTower.esp  [Version 6.0]4B  NNWAREAyleidDungeons_Series1EV.esp  [Version 2.2]4C  NNWAEDungeons-Series2EV.esp4D  NNWARE06-RhyeliaEmeroEV.esp4E  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.3.2]4F  TheForgottenShields.esp50  NRB4+ForgottonShields Patch.esp51  Tona's_ModsStore.esp52  VaultsofCyrodiil.esp53  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp54  Apachii_Heroes_Store.esp55  DLCfrostcrag.esp56  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp57  Cybiades.esp  [Version 2.1]58  CybiadesDungeon.esp  [Version 2.1]59  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp5A  MannimarcoRevisited.esp**  MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp  [Version 0.1]5B  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.5.5]5C  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.1]5D  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.4]5E  Faregyl.esp  [Version 1.0.10]5F  bartholm.esp60  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]61  JADDockTunnel.esp62  JQ-Fighters_Guild_United.esp++  FCOM_FighterGUnited.esp63  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]64  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]65  ANB_Item_Switchers.esp66  AutoBookPlacer.esp67  DecoratorAssistant with OBSE v1.1.esp68  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.4]69  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp++  GotNoClass.esp6A  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]6B  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]6C  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]6D  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.0.1]++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp  [Version 2.1.0]6E  StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised.esp6F  StarX VVR_OOO Patch.esp70  EnchantmentMastery.esp71  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]72  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]73  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]74  MidasSpells.esp75  RshAlchemy.esp76  RshAlchemyRecipes.esp77  SM Combat Hide.esp  [Version 1.2]78  Deadlier Sneaking 1.1.esp79  Deadly Reflex Bow Sway.esp7A  Phitt's Phighting Phixes.esp7B  nGCD.esp++  nGCD Birthsigns.esp7C  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp7D  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]7E  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]7F  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Immediate Character Generation.esp80  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp81  Mayu's Animation Overhaul.esp82  CTAddPose_osr1.esp83  CTAddPose_osr2.esp84  CTAddPose_osr3.esp85  actors_in_charge.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.78]++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp86  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]++  TamrielTravellers Cosmetics Cobl or RBP.esp87  SkinMannequinCOBL-nosleep.esp88  TheOubliette.esp89  Get Wet - just droplets.esp**  Enhanced Economy - Soulgems.esp  [Version 4.2.1]**  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp8A  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]8B  Bashed Patch, 0.esp8C  SWalk.esp8D  FormID Finder4.esp8E  Streamline 3.1.esp

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:52 pm

Good afternoon,

So there you go. I decided to start this thread instead of a threads like "FCOM vs. OOO+MMM". It just made more sense to me. I'm going to post my current LO at the end of this for a frame of reference.

Oh yeah, I know about TES4POSitive, so no need to direct me to Tomlong's site... I am already there! (Thanks Tomlong!)

Hope this is clear enough... I tried to wait until I wasn't so frustrated with my game to write this!

Thanks in advance,
veg

LO:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esmAlphsbet soup.esssssssssssssssssmn\p

Patience. Learn Wrye Bash. Read readmes.extension. Have the best experience you can get! Have Fun!

Learn to mod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Metallicow

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:12 pm

I had a similar situation and I suspect something happened with my computer. Anyway, I was on vacation last week and decided to forget FCOM and go with OOO and MMM. Had a very stable game. Here is what I ran:

OOO
MMM for OOO
COBL
UL mods EXCEPT Beaches of Cyrodiil
Roads And Bridges
West Roads
ALEX
CNRP mods
Improved Bruma, Chorral, Skingrad, Bravil
Qarl without architecture
Darker Regal IC
Bunch of texture mods
Supreme Magica
Kvatch Rebuilt
Enhanced Economy
DLCs Battlehorn Castle, Spelltomes, Orrery, Mehrunes Razor
Enhanced Weather
Cyrodiil Travel Service along with Fearabits travel mod
The Alyeid Steps

I am 60 hours into my character with a very stable game. So far the merchant quests keep me busy exploring ruins.
If I do have a crash outdoors it is usually Kvatch Anvil area, that is why I avoid mods that change those places.

I am going to try FCOM again next week just to see how it goes, just because I want the better weapon stats and the content from Warcry and Frans, but you never really miss it, there is so much to do just exploring dungeons.
I can say sometimes I play 4-5 hours without crash but that usually means I am in 2-3 dungeons, so that statement is subjective. I am pretty stable outside.

Specifically for me I found that cleaning mods makes my game more unstable than just leaving them as they are. But that is particular to me and may not apply as a general rule.

Bottom line, the fewer mods the better. There is so much to do that I only introduce a new quest mod when I want to try something different. New content is fine if it adds something to the game. How many house mods, new weapons, companions, armor, clutter do you really need or will use? Over the last 60 hours I used content from the above list most of the time, but 90% comes from MMM, OOO, and Enhaced Economy merchant quests. So start with OOO and MMM and a few mods and play for a day or two. Then add another mod you want to try out. Trust me, it takes more than a day to try out OOO (I just started a fighting amazons from OOO after all this time).

So that is my advice. You do not need everything loaded at the start.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:19 pm

Thanks Peter ID, that is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! You give some good suggestions, and make some really good points. Thank you very much... This is extremely helpful!

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:18 am

Good luck to you. Being laid up is a great reason to play! Hope you get better after at least you reach level 30

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:52 pm

I will echo Peter's comment to prune your mod list. I used to be a mod pack rat, and would install any and every mod that looked even remotely interesting. This lead to a lot of crashes. I took a sharp look at what I installed, and if I wasn't using it, out it went for this latest install. Take Horse Armor for example. I never even use horses in Oblivion. Yet, at one point I had 3 mods dealing with this. The DLC, the Unofficial Patch, and the SM delayer. I used to have every single armor mod out there (well, for HGEC anyway) all merged into a mega-armors pack, and had that active at all times. Hundreds of armors I couldn't use just in case I wanted one at any moment.

I think Oblivion simply gets unstable when you throw too many things into it at once. Even if you're under the actual hard mod limit, it just seems to get unstable and weird the larger your installation and load order.

But this is why I did my installation with BAIN this time. Now, if I "go too far" I can easily revert to a more stable state.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:25 pm

I think your plan is a good one . every mod/nodder you plan to use is triple A in quality and, providing your system specs are up to scratch and you read the readme's, should work together. It actually reads similar to my basic load order for much of my playing time, ie

OOO
MMM
Cobl
TheNiceOne's stuff (esp. Enhanced Economy and Map Marker Overhaul)
Arthmoor's stuff, including open Cities.

That base should give you an awesome, and very stable, experience.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:00 pm

I think your plan is a good one . every mod/nodder you plan to use is triple A in quality and, providing your system specs are up to scratch and you read the readme's, should work together. It actually reads similar to my basic load order for much of my playing time, ie

OOO
MMM
Cobl
TheNiceOne's stuff (esp. Enhanced Economy and Map Marker Overhaul)
Arthmoor's stuff, including open Cities.

That base should give you an awesome, and very stable, experience.

Excellent! That, too, is just the kind of input I was hoping to get! Thank you very much, indeed!

Now, let me ask this (at the risk of revealing how little I really know)... Normal maps and texture replacers: if I can live without them, is there anything to be gained in performance and stability? Is that a stupid question?

Thanks again... I'm just about ready to start this process... hopefully it will be a little easier this time!

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:42 pm

Excellent! That, too, is just the kind of input I was hoping to get! Thank you very much, indeed!

Now, let me ask this (at the risk of revealing how little I really know)... Normal maps and texture replacers: if I can live without them, is there anything to be gained in performance and stability? Is that a stupid question?

Thanks again... I'm just about ready to start this process... hopefully it will be a little easier this time!

If your system has the power to process them, not really. If you are really cutting back, it may take more time for Oblivion to reach the memory ceiling. Technically, that is a performance issue, but since it is really just a "how much time?" thing the trade-off is up to you. I could not give those up, which is why I am investing the extra money for more VRAM.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:35 pm

If your system has the power to process them, not really. If you are really cutting back, it may take more time for Oblivion to reach the memory ceiling. Technically, that is a performance issue, but since it is really just a "how much time?" thing the trade-off is up to you. I could not give those up, which is why I am investing the extra money for more VRAM.

OK, cool... that's what I was hoping to hear, actually! I've got a 1GB card, so Bomret's + Vibrant should still be OK I'm guessing (that's the combo I'm using now).

Thank you very much!

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:47 pm

OK, cool... that's what I was hoping to hear, actually! I've got a 1GB card, so Bomret's + Vibrant should still be OK I'm guessing (that's the combo I'm using now).

Thank you very much!

That combo should be no problem at all.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:35 am

For example, maybe FCOM is just asking too much... perhaps I should just go with OOO + MMM? Would that make much of a difference?

FCOM gets a bad reputation for things it has nothing to do with.
If your rig is capable of running an OOO/MMM set up, then a full FCOM setup will have no further impact on performance. The current version of the mod if run on it's own is rock solid stable.
I'll once again emphasize what I have preached for years. The more you add to your mod listing the more prone you will be to running into problems and stability issues.
Yeah, we've all gone through it. Trying mostly in vain to use 200 plus mods. A lot of these containing intensive AI, graphics and scripting, all of which as your save builds and memory grows contribute significantly towards game play deterioration.
Use only what you deem as absolutely necessary for your game enjoyment.
Wouldn't you prefer a stable game game using 100 mods than constantly troubleshooting your list looking for answers when trying for 200 plus?

Eye candy along with all the bells and whistles is certainly nice, but It's something I can do without if it hits performance.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:04 pm

FCOM gets a bad reputation for things it has nothing to do with.
If your rig is capable of running an OOO/MMM set up, then a full FCOM setup will have no further impact on performance. The current version of the mod if run on it's own is rock solid stable.
I'll once again emphasize what I have preached for years. The more you add to your mod listing the more prone you will be to running into problems and stability issues.
Yeah, we've all gone through it. Trying mostly in vain to use 200 plus mods. A lot of these containing intensive AI, graphics and scripting, all of which as your save builds and memory grows contribute significantly towards game play deterioration.
Use only what you deem as absolutely necessary for your game enjoyment.
Wouldn't you prefer a stable game game using 100 mods than constantly troubleshooting your list looking for answers when trying for 200 plus?

Eye candy along with all the bells and whistles is certainly nice, but It's something I can do without if it hits performance.

I understand what you are saying here, but if I could get you to help me on a couple of points I would really appreciate it...

For one thing, is it really true that there's no difference in performance and stability between OOO+MMM and FCOM? With all due respect, that seems hard to believe. If nothing else, FCOM adds to the number of mods and variety of creatures and items. Does that really come at no cost whatsoever? If that's true, then I should forget MMM and just go with OOO.

I have tried to keep my mod list fairly modest, and have been told it's a good, reasonable one for my rig. I have a few more armor/weapon mods than I really need, but other than that I don't think it's too ambitious. But please, if you think I have been asking too much of my machine with this build I would really like to know what you think I should scale back on. I honestly don't know. My load order (before uninstalling) is posted above.

Eye candy is really a general term... do you mean any replacer? I said I would be willing to cut down on them, but what I have now is not much. Are you referring to body replacers as well?

Please don't misunderstand me. I sincerely respect your knowledge, and if you say these things are true then I will take your word for it. But to answer your question, yes, I would much rather have a stable game. I just have not been able to achieve that with FCOM and so I was considering trying something else. That's the reason for this thread. I don't want to drop FCOM, but doing so reduces some of the complexity. It just seemed logical.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:31 pm

Have you ever tried just Fran's (of the "big three") ...? Personally, I'm quite fond of that one, and of the bunch, it's proved to be the least troublesome, over the time I've been trying overhaul mods and stuff.

But anyway, probably not quite what you're after. Bit of a sidetrack, I know. If you ever feel like trying it out though, you might be pleasantly surprised, which I guess is what I was trying to spit out.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:54 pm

Have you ever tried just Fran's (of the "big three") ...? Personally, I'm quite fond of that one, and of the bunch, it's proved to be the least troublesome, over the time I've been trying overhaul mods and stuff.

But anyway, probably not quite what you're after. Bit of a sidetrack, I know. If you ever feel like trying it out though, you might be pleasantly surprised, which I guess is what I was trying to spit out.

No, that's a good suggestion, and one I briefly considered. There's just so much in OOO that I'd have a hard time doing without. But if I can ever get to a point where making sweeping changes to my build doesn't take me days, I might yet give it a try. Thanks BP!

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:13 pm

There's just so much in OOO that I'd have a hard time doing without.

Totally understand that - and OOO is certainly still commendable, and just a fine mod besides. If you ever do go a different way though, you'll probably be able to track down at least most of the wholly or partially included mods (well, the ones you like!) from OOO, if not all of them, even. Then there's levelling and such - here, alternatives exist. Some of it, however, is pure OOO... and that, maybe not so much.

Heh. No matter how I phrase things, I can't seem to make it sound other than trying to dissuade you from OOO/FCOM. Not at all, just for the record!

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:41 pm

I just have not been able to achieve that with FCOM and so I was considering trying something else.

Same for me, in all my past games I have used FCOM over the years. In dungeons and cities the game is fairly stable, but like you mentioned, out in the wild I seem to fail in getting it stable.
I have followed every single FCOM guide in getting it smooth and stable over the years, all tips on stability and performance as well, but I never really succeeded. I wonder how the people with stable FCOM++ setups handle this.

Just installed a fresh game again, with FCOM (again), I just love it so much that I can't resist using it. However, again, outdoors it's far more buggy than indoors...

Whether it's FCOM or not, getting it running butter smooth seems impossible to me..

» Sun May 29, 2011 12:34 am

Same for me, in all my past games I have used FCOM over the years. In dungeons and cities the game is fairly stable, but like you mentioned, out in the wild I seem to fail in getting it stable.
I have followed every single FCOM guide in getting it smooth and stable over the years, all tips on stability and performance as well, but I never really succeeded. I wonder how the people with stable FCOM++ setups handle this.

Just installed a fresh game again, with FCOM (again), I just love it so much that I can't resist using it. However, again, outdoors it's far more buggy than indoors...

Whether it's FCOM or not, getting it running butter smooth seems impossible to me..

I hear you. I guess the other big factor for me is that this is recreational for me, you know? It's supposed to be my way to kick back and relax, doing something I enjoy. But it turns into work before too long, and I just don't have time for that. There are actually a couple of projects I'd like to work on a little, but with things the way they are that's pretty much out of the question.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:49 pm

I understand what you are saying here, but if I could get you to help me on a couple of points I would really appreciate it...

It's a while since I posted http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1004123-50-steps-to-ctd-free-fcm-game/page__view__findpost__p__14529974 and http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1004123-50-steps-to-ctd-free-fcm-game/page__view__findpost__p__14722827.
FCOM has a newer version and the install order has altered slightly (recommended order is highlighted in the opening post of the current FCOM thread) but the basic method I describe has been tested many times - and it works.
If your preference is substituting OMOD for BAIN then that's fine too.
The intensive mods in any FCOM install are Oscuro's and Mart's. That's where the AI, spawning and scripting are the heaviest.
Both Francesco's and WarCry are comparative lightweights in that department, as are the other supported recommended additions.

Good luck.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:21 pm

FCOM is very stable if you do it right (like the author suggests). I installed it for my latest character, and I haven't have any problems - I'm running just over 200 mods total, along with stuff like QTP3R, RAEVWD, and OBC. Having played with OOO+MMM several times before that, I can definitely says that FCOM brings a lot more to the table - the game is much more challenging, with many new foes and armor/weapons.

Like Tom said, it's really a question of system resources. If you're running at least 2 GB of RAM, you should be good. You've got a 1GB video card, so that can handle just about anything, texture-wise, that you could throw at it (mine's 512MB).

One thing I might suggest: Try reinstalling using Shikishima's order of operations, in the second link. I did mine using a slightly different install order that someone posted, but it worked great. Installing and uninstalling mods, however, is what will screw up a game. I speak from experience here - I've had a few occasions when I removed a mod that I didn't want, and it caused enough problems that I was forced to start a new game. :swear: I'm still trying to complete a game (as in, beat the MQ) with my latest PC; I just can't seem to do it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:30 pm

Same for me, in all my past games I have used FCOM over the years. In dungeons and cities the game is fairly stable, but like you mentioned, out in the wild I seem to fail in getting it stable.
I have followed every single FCOM guide in getting it smooth and stable over the years, all tips on stability and performance as well, but I never really succeeded. I wonder how the people with stable FCOM++ setups handle this.

Just installed a fresh game again, with FCOM (again), I just love it so much that I can't resist using it. However, again, outdoors it's far more buggy than indoors...

Whether it's FCOM or not, getting it running butter smooth seems impossible to me..

I have not found FCOM to be really buggy out doors at all. The biggest issue with FCOM is maintenance. It does require more work to keep up with the updates and patches. The installation and upkeep should be longer and slightly more complex, since it integrates more than two overhauls and a couple of other mods. If you do not want to put in the extra effort to keep it running smoothly, that is fine.

Also, I do not know if you were referring to Blade of Mercy's FCOM guide, but the point to take away from those threads is to be thorough when creating your mod list. Shikishima advises a very different method of being thorough, but it still about slowly building a working setup. Conflicts do not pop out of nowhere. Vegtabill said that the setup collapsed on him after changing his config a bit, and you can find plenty of posts by Blade of Mercy where just that sparked a new rebuild. Try to figure out your mod list before you build it, and stick to it. Adding new into any setup can cause complete failure. It does seem to be easier to cause imbalance when adding to a multiple overhauls++ setup, but that was just my experience moving from just OOO to FCOM.

Edit: Vegtabill, if you want to switch from FCOM to MMMforOOO, I think that is absolutely fine. I completely understand the desire for less work and more recreation. It takes less work to setup MMMforOOO, and that is plenty enough to make the switch for some.

» Sun May 29, 2011 2:25 am

OK Shikishima and WalkerInShadows... I hear what you are saying. I just have yet to see this in reality. I have followed advice and done exactly what people told me to do, and ended up with a broken game. You are suggesting that I follow yet another way to install FCOM and everything should be fine. But how is that different from the last advice I followed? Each time, I have followed a guide that said "this is how you do it", only to find later that someone else says, no that's NOT the way you do it.. do it this way...

I'm not picking on you guys, but can you see it from my point of view? I mean, the first guide I followed was dev_akm's, the original author of FCOM. That didn't work out, and neither did the next method I tried. How many methods do I need to try? And on how many people's authority? I don't have tons of time to waste on this. And I really, really don't want to get a month or two into it to find it screwed up again. Honestly, that would pretty much do it for me.

FCOM is more complex than OOO+MMM. But considering what you're saying about OOO+MMM, I think you've convinced me not to use both. Probably just going to do OOO now and hope for the best.

Thanks again,
veg

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:36 pm

Installing and uninstalling mods, however, is what will screw up a game.

I am tempted to say that this is never the case when you use BAIN, but "never" is a very strong word.

Even so...

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:51 pm

OK Shikishima and WalkerInShadows... I hear what you are saying. I just have yet to see this in reality. I have followed advice and done exactly what people told me to do, and ended up with a broken game. You are suggesting that I follow yet another way to install FCOM and everything should be fine. But how is that different from the last advice I followed? Each time, I have followed a guide that said "this is how you do it", only to find later that someone else says, no that's NOT the way you do it.. do it this way...

I'm not picking on you guys, but can you see it from my point of view? I mean, the first guide I followed was dev_akm's, the original author of FCOM. That didn't work out, and neither did the next method I tried. How many methods do I need to try? And on how many people's authority? I don't have tons of time to waste on this. And I really, really don't want to get a month or two into it to find it screwed up again. Honestly, that would pretty much do it for me.

FCOM is more complex than OOO+MMM. But considering what you're saying about OOO+MMM, I think you've convinced me not to use both. Probably just going to do OOO now and hope for the best.

Thanks again,
veg

Give MMMforOOO a try. There is a difference, and that is in the work you have to do to set it up. You will have a lot more energy to deal with any inconsistencies you find, which should be few.

Remember: Albertine's MMMforOOO story - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1083199-martigens-monster-mod-ooo/ <-- I think he was thinking FCOM at some point too, but that didn't happen...

I am tempted to say that this is never the case when you use BAIN, but "never" is a very strong word.

Even so...

OBMM does not clean up after itself as well, that's all. BAIN makes keeping track of the "real" state of the Data folder much easier...helps a bit when installing lots of mods, especially overlapping mods...

Edit: The other difference between FCOM and MMMforOOO that is kind... of telling is MMMforOOO can run perfectly fine without a Bashed Patch...not that I think you should not use one, but you do not have to...

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:48 pm

OK Shikishima and WalkerInShadows... I hear what you are saying. I just have yet to see this in reality. I have followed advice and done exactly what people told me to do, and ended up with a broken game. You are suggesting that I follow yet another way to install FCOM and everything should be fine. But how is that different from the last advice I followed? Each time, I have followed a guide that said "this is how you do it", only to find later that someone else says, no that's NOT the way you do it.. do it this way...

I'm not picking on you guys, but can you see it from my point of view? I mean, the first guide I followed was dev_akm's, the original author of FCOM. That didn't work out, and neither did the next method I tried. How many methods do I need to try? And on how many people's authority? I don't have tons of time to waste on this. And I really, really don't want to get a month or two into it to find it screwed up again. Honestly, that would pretty much do it for me.

FCOM is more complex than OOO+MMM. But considering what you're saying about OOO+MMM, I think you've convinced me not to use both. Probably just going to do OOO now and hope for the best.

Thanks again,
veg

Well, here's a slightly different perspective on your admittedly frustrating situation:

FCOM has been updated in significant ways since Dev's page was written (and he's not available at the moment to update the install directions), so it's no surprise, really, that there's a need for further instructions.
Installing several dozen mods is a demanding process, and FCOM is a slightly more-than-usually demanding collection of several dozen mods (ESPs, ESMs, BSAs, compatibility patches, updated meshes, the bashed patch), so it's reasonable to expect FCOM to remain high on the list of difficult-to-install mods, despite the best efforts of those involved.
Mod using is a hobby widely enjoyed by people who are, largely, do-it-yourselfers (to one degree or another), so it's no surprise that there are plenty of people not on the FCOM team who offer their own advice on installation.
A balance everybody on this forum strives to strike - and that balance is different for everybody - is the ratio of tinkering to gameplay time. At what point does the ratio equal fun? At what point does it equal frustration? Each person has to discover that point on their own. If a certain setup tips the balance toward frustration, it's probably best to forego that setup in favor of less tinkering and more stable game time. The tough part of this is, of course, choosing to be happy with a stable playable game that does not include mods x, y, and z.

So, don't get too frustrated with Shikishima or the FCOM team, or anybody else whose advice you tried to follow. They're just like you, making the same choices, striving for the same fun.

Cheers,

gothemasticator