I know this has been brought up a couple different times but here's my spin on how I think the game should change once you become a guild master.

Let's take the Thieves Guild for example. You can take numerous jobs from Delvin and Vex that have you going to one of the five major holds of the game and carrying out different missions for the guild. A lot of people don't like these, but I rather enjoy them. Sure, I wish they were a bit more in depth, but its better than nothing.

Now doing these small jobs is all well and good as a new member of the guild but the mechanics should fundamentally change once you actually become the guild master. Here's how it should work.

You should, first of all, have your own chambers. And on your desk there should be requests from people wanting certain thing done, bedlam jobs, heists, shill jobs, etc. It should be in the form of a letter and have the "customers" name and what they're wanting done. You should be able to negotiate with the buyer on a price, and depending on your speech skill, he or she may or may not accept your offer. Once a job is agreed upon you have a couple of choices.

First, you can take the job yourself, in which case you do not have to pay another member of the guild their cut. In other words you get more back for it once the job is done. Or you can tell one of the many thieves in the guild that they need to do the job, in which case they will earn a cut. Now, you won't get as much gold back from this but its easy gold as you literally don't have to do anything but wait and you'll get a percentage, again, whatever is agreed upon.

There's so many other possibilities as well. Take for example, bringing in new members. Potential thieves could come to you, want to be part of the guild, you can test them and decide, etc. There's a great number of possibilities but the main thing for me would be changing the way the guild works once you're the leader.

As it stands now you still have to go to Delvin or Vex for jobs. Which is kind of silly in my opinion. I just role-play that its a job that I've decided to take myself, rather than delegate.

Good idea's. I think at least they could of put in stead of gaining those jobs through diolouge some sort of blackboard or bounty board or something where you just literally pulla job of there and you do it. And also adding markers so for example npc walk up to it and pull notes of not really changing anything but adding to realism that the thieves guilds actually functial and then npcs saying stuff like aww "why did i pick that job I dident relise chickens were involved I got into some deep [censored], you dident see what i saw they were everywhere" "It's ok we will get through this" *comforting the delusional thief"

I couldn't agree more. I am the leader of everything in Skyrim but I don't have to do anything for the guilds now. The leader should LEAD not go of to a different guild and never do anything for them again.

^ All of these

Couldn't agree more; it would improve the general immersion of the game if they didn't allow leaders of certain guilds to lead something else not according to their play style - e.g a thieves guild master should not be allowed to be arch mage of winter hold's college and there should be some sorta a dialogue saying "get lost thief" or "your kind has no place here". And to compensate this lack of leading variety the leaders should have increased perks and benefits suited to their playstyle;

For example the newly made leader of the companions should have a permanent skill increase for all warrior class traits - one handed, block, smithing and all the rest of it, and also harbor a natural extra deadliness against elves in damage (as part of Ysgramors story-line).

If this was done you would see a-lot less topics of people complaining about Skyrim not being a proper RPG or questioning how the "freedom" has faltered the experience for some its players.

I want a guild where you can't actually become the guild master in the main plot of the guild. Sort of like an Easter Egg approach, the game makes no specific mention of "Now you have to kill the current guildmaster to take his/her place", but it's something you can totally do.

Agreed. I'd also like to interject being able to expand your reach..like what they were trying to do intitially in game. bribing the right folks, extending in the right directions etc etc opening up more job ops, buying off guards/Thanes

That's kind of what happens in the Thieves guild. Part of the reason I can look beyond the lulzy main plot and still find enjoyment there, it behaves like an actual organization.

This would be my favorite approach as well. Ending up as a 2nd in command. Becoming the leader of a guild after only doing so little always felt very weird to me.

I don't mind becoming head of all the guilds quite as much. If you think about it, you can justify most of it. I'd say the most well-known leader is being arch-mage. There's not a lot of disguising that one. Second would be the Companions. Pretty well known I guess. Now those two can work together. I don't think its too far fetched for someone to be the arch-mage and the Harbinger of the Companions. At least in my mind. Its the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild that require a bit of imagination.

I always wished that the Thieves Guild was more secretive. I hate when guards say, "you can try and hide it all you like, I know you're in the Thieves Guild." The Thieves Guild should be masters of disguise. They should often hide in plain sight. So with that in mind, and ignoring what some guards and NPCs say, you can assume that no one knows that you're the head of the Thieves Guild. Now as far as your fellow thieves go, I'm sure they'd love the fact that you are also the arch-mage and the Harbinger of the Companions, because that gives the Thieves Guild a leg up, they know who you "really" are while the other guilds have no knowledge of your involvement in the goings on in Riften. All the aspects of the Thieves guild can also play into the Dark Brotherhood. No one should know you're involvement or your standing with that organization. I think it all plays out well. I just wish our role changed, like I said, once we rise to the top of each respective guild.

and going on your previous point, it would have been nice if you're a person differed to but not strictly the guy who handles logistics. you have respect and can call people up Via loyalty (svcks loyalty missions didnt make it in) and have them help you out on missions

It seems ironic how you are the latest initiate for every guild yet you also become the next leader. Surely they want someone who has had the experience and knows the clan well. The thieves guild is better for this than the other factions are.
I want to do more than 5 quests to become the leader. I want to earn the right to lead the faction. I hope that in Dawnguard they don't make it so you kill some vampires and the old leader happens do die in one of these fights and because he said that you can be the leader you are given rule of the faction. This would be a waste of money and time. I really hope that Bethesda uses the imagination which it has shown in previous games.

Were there supposed to be loyalty missions? Looking at a lot of the dudes wander around the thieves guild, it seems like there's some Stories/Quests just waiting to be explored, but nothing ever happens with that. Is that what you're referencing?

Sort of like the Duke of Colovia in Oblivion...

I was thinking about radiant quests that could come up for guildmasters. (I figure the dragonborn should just end up being Number Two in the organization, at best, but this sort of thing would still work for that position.) Suppose every 30 days one of the NPCs in the guild (A) gets into a brawl with another NPC in that guild ( B ). You can choose to intervene or not, but the dispute revolves around A claiming that B:

• Stole an item from A
  
• Insulted A's skills, suggesting A doesn't belong in the guild
  
• is a necromancer
  
• is plotting to take over the guild in a coup against you, involving NPCs C and D
  
• insulted your honor

You can then choose to:

• Tell A to svck it up, not my problem, you don't believe him, etc. (effectively ends the quest before it officially starts, lowering A's disposition toward you)
  
• Back out of the dialogue (but you only have 2 in-game days to respond to A or B before the quest becomes unavailable)
  
• Tell A that B is basically right (if B stole from you, you deserved to lose it; if B is plotting to take over, you'd like to see him try; maybe A doesn't have what it takes to be in your guild--in fact, here's a quest you're giving him right now to see if he's up to the task, etc.). This also lowers A's disposition for some choices.
  
• Tell A you will confront B.

If you choose to confront B, he may respond with:

• A is lying (e.g., no no that's not right--A is the necromancer, he's just trying to throw suspicion off himself!)
  
• A is telling the truth (and what are you gonna do about it?) or A "had it coming, after what he did .... (explained at length by B )"

From here, you can choose to support A, requiring B to apologize to you and/or A, restore the stolen item, pay some tribute to you, promise to give up necromancy, etc., and B's response will depend on his disposition toward you. If it's middling, B will stand his ground, at which point you can choose to expel him from the guild or to face you in single combat--really low and he just attacks you on sight. If disposition is high, B will be contrite and agree to your terms (and you receive rewards from both B and A for bringing the dispute to a resolution). Or you can support B, lowering A's disposition toward you and possibly receiving some reward from B.

If an NPC's disposition becomes too low following resolution of disputes like these, he may attack you on sight, talk [censored] within earshot of you, or simply voluntarily leave the guild. And of course expelling NPCs willy-nilly could lower the total average disposition among guild members generally, to the point that attempted coups become more likely....

The factions could use a lot more overhaul than this, but I wonder if this sort of thing could be done with the CK (can you just write scripts for quests, disposition adjustments, quest responses, etc.)? I play on xbox so I'd never see this sort of change without Beth doing it through an update...

How about being the listener for the dark brotherhood. You should be able to assign certain contracts to certain assassins. Maybe even have the option to promote certain assassins to certain ranks, so you can give the harder contracts to the higher ranks. Maybe even be able to perform your own black sacrament and get an assassin to kill a target of your choice.

Yeah I would like to pass on the jobs as listener to the DB initiates. It makes more sense.

Also since we can go between guilds, it would be nice if there was recognition for that, or even unique quests, like multi-lateral missions between DB and thieves guild, or something?

Or how about the option to personally recruit people? Or have potential recruits measure up to your standards, and you get the final say if they pass your "trials"

This is a pretty good Idea. They should have made all the factions in this manner. Would make for more interesting gameplay.

I don't know if you read my post in the other thread, but it seems like you did. Since you basically just said everything I did, in a more long winded fashion. And the only things you added were "you should have a desk" and "it should come in the form of a letter"

I personally don't feel it necessary to be forced into number 2 in the guild like a lot of people are suggesting. What should be done is to make ranking up in a guild feel more like you are doing something. The thieves guild accomplished this really well in my opinion. You were not allowed to advance to guild master until you had the experience as well as saved the guild. The dark brotherhood approach works as well. The guild was left destroyed with you being the only one left around who can actually keep things together. Another good way to make this feel more deserved is to go the morrowind approach of challenging the master to a duel for power. The morrowind approach would also leave the option to stay second that a lot of people like. As for the suggested guildmaster quest the op made I completely agree.

I like that idea as well but it would take a great deal of work to implement.

He isn't suggesting they make it happen. He's just saying that's how it should be. Possibly for future ES games. I agree, considering I said all that before this thread was created.

You're very sore over the idea that somebody agrees with you, aren't you...?

Lots of this ideas seem great, but as has been said they will not make it into the game, sadly.

yes i think it would be wonderful to actually lead,you know,because your the LEADER.

Agreed, so simple it leaves you wondering why it's not like that.

After many of the silly suggestions here, it's great to see one as sensible and well thought out as this one. I agree. I can see it would take a LOT of scripting, and I suspect that Beth would only do it as a DLC to recoup the cost, but I'd pay at least some money to see it.