In Oblivion I was able to use the following .ini settings:

bUseWaterReflectionsMisc=1
bUseWaterReflectionsStatics=1
bUseWaterReflectionsTrees=1
bUseWaterReflectionsActors=1

This meant that the water ingame reflected everything around it as seen in this image (notice the windows reflected in the water)

[img]http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/95/potd/1203459958_80.jpg[/img]

By comparison I find Skyrims water (even when modded) to be a noticeable step backwards. I have tried using the same Oblivion settings in the Skyrim and/or SkyrimPrefs .ini files but with no effect.

The water reflections in Skyrim seem to be limited to basic LOD which leads to terrible immersion breaking moments such as this:

[img]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/872/screenshot1482.jpg[/img]

So, my question is this: Is there a way to make the water in Skyrim (modded or otherwise) reflect everything around it i.e. static objects, buildings, trees, npc's etc? If so, how?

Thanks in advance, Pow R Toc H.

Edit: Typo

Nope. There underwater trees and mountains.

Anyone have a sensible answer?

Although I have no solution for you, I too am very interested in this idea, and fully support this thread.

Also

Nope. "There" NOT underwater trees and mountains.

I have been searching all over for a way to do this. From what I can tell, there are no ini values that can change this. I heard that Beth needs to come in in fix it, otherwise there would be little chance that we could do this ourselves. Something to do with the Creation Kit not offering what we would need to change it.

Amusing that so many things in Skyrim are a step backwards over earlier games, and that's apparently called progress? Hell, even in Modded Morrowind you could reflect the landscape and meshes.

Must admit, I've never noticed this issue in Skyrim, shows how unobservant I am

It's not an "issue". Rendering the scene twice every time the player comes in view of a pond would be an issue, and that's exactly what Oblivion does. Unsurprisingly, that murders performance.
There's a ridiculously slim chance of them "patching" this. At best, someone might find a way to implement screen-space reflections, but those are fairly costly, too.

I noticed it right away because the video auto detect options. I checked all the boxes for reflect and went looking for it haha. I mean c'mon... even Half Life 2 had full reflections. Someone will fix it soon I am confident. On another water note... Beth should take some notes from Crytek about how to render under water scenes.

If tomerk is playing Skyrim, I'm fairly sure he'll mod the water
He did an excellent job with Oblivion's water shader. I'm pretty sure he could do just as excellent job with Skyrim, including these poor water reflections.

Let's just say Skyrim has murky water, eh?

There is the options on the launcher -- Under Detail select Advanced to open the second window and in the details tab there are listings for water -- Land,Trees, Objects, and skies. (not sure if they actually change anything but might be what you were looking for !

They change distant things. Not the ones closest to the player. In Oblivion these options enabled reflections for both distant and closest.
Also be sure not to enable sky reflections, as they are buggy/broken.

No. All my settings are already at the max possible via the options menu as well as many other ini tweaks. Compare the Skyrim options menu with the Fallout 3 one, where there were options to enable "Full Scene Reflections" and "Full Detail Reflections". Those options simply do not exist in Skyrims standard or advanced options menu. Even if they did cause a framerate hit (which was minimal in both Oblivion and Fallout 3) surely the option should still be made available to those who want it. Even if it's via an ini tweak. Like I said, a real step backwards imo.

While I'm here, does anybody know what variables are altered/added in the fallout3.ini when "Full Scene Reflections" and "Full Detail Reflections" are enabled via the options menu? If so, perhaps those same ini settings could perhaps be applied to the skyrim ini to achieve the same level of detail and solve this issue. Any tweak guides I have looked at only make reference to the menu options and do not state which ini variable are added/enabled.

Edit: Typo

idk the settings, but couldn't you just look at a diff of the ini before and after changing the settings?

Nope. Don't have Fallout 3

These are all the water settings in Skyrim's full ini:
As you can see, only distant water reflections. I'm sure there are valid reasons for it, since it has been in every other Bethesda game.

Lines can always be added to ini files to enable settings to go beyond the vanilla stuff, just as I have done with other Beth games. All I need to know is what to add

Yeah you can add what's in the full ini into your prefs.ini. That's supported by the code. You can't add anything else, unless there's code that supports it. Apparently it isn't, or the code is disabled.
You need to change the water shaders or hack the Skyrim code. You can't add magic ini settings to something that isn't supported or doesn't perhaps exist.

Wish I wasn't at work right now... I'd take a look at Fallout 3 for you.

I realize that, but perhaps it does exist and is supported by the code and it has simply been left out of both the options menu and vanilla ini's. Such is my hope. Shaders are an option oc but that option is probably a long way off.

I notice this as well, first FONV took a step back and now Skyrim, thats lame.

It's called 'optimization for consoles'. I agree with you though - Tomerk to the rescue!

Until then, I'm going to try disabling all reflections except sky. That way I can pretend the water is just really murky, and won't have to deal with trees and mountains reflected in Riften's waterways. Should get a slight performance boost too

Sky reflections have always worked fine for me.

Also, Oblivion's engine was horrendous to begin with on the optimisation front. Enabling full reflections absolutely murdered performance in busy areas even further. They've re-written the water engine since Oblivion (F3 onwards) to be more efficient.

Remember that Oblivion was landscape + a few statics, where as 90% of Skyrim (including the majority of the terrain) is static based. Reflecting every single static and actor would be an absolute nightmare.

He didn't list the Water settings in the vanilla ini.
In fact, for me, the vanilla ini doesn't even have the water settings.

He listed the water settings that are found in the game when you type saveini, those are all of the settings that exist.
There is nothing else.

As said before we need to either modify the water shaders (this is the probable solution), or use l33t skills to hack water reflections into Skyrim's code.
The latter would be ridiculous though...