Info on naming conventions of different races?

Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:21 pm

As the title says really. Other than anecdotal evidence (ie the NPC names in the games themselves), is there anything official regarding the naming of characters in Tamriel? From what I gather (exluding nicknames):

- Bretons have French and sometimes English inspired names
- Imperials have Latinesque ones usually, but there are some who don't, such as the population of Hackdirt
- Nords have Nordic inspired names, bearing only a first name and sometimes a compound title or a title indicating place of origin/residence
- Redguards seem to be the most open when it comes to names; tending to have English names or variations thereof, or just...well, "fantasy" names
- Argonians seem to have three-syllable native names, don't really know how to describe them but there's a pattern to them; or have common names deriving from what they do, usually two or three words
- Orcs have guttural-sounding names, with the surname having a gra- or gro- suffix denoting male or female, respectively
- Dunmer are bloody complicated it seems, but there does seem to be a pattern
- Altmer and Bosmer seem to have the most typical fantasy setting names, but again, difficult to describe

There are obviously a few holes in what I've just said that I'd like to have filled in; so if anyone could put a name to the patterns I've indicated in the naming of elves and beast races in particular, that'd be much appreciated. Also, any further info of any sort relating to naming would be good
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lolly13
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:59 am

For Dunmer, it's often [House Name] [Given Name] [Surname] for official business, regularly it's just the latter two.
For Khajiit, males seem to exclusively have prefixes such as Dro', J', S', Ra', and Ri'; a few lack them, but no females carry them.
For Orcs; a perhaps helpful quote from http://www.imperial-library.info/zeph/TES_Tre_2.shtml:
    "Traditional Orcish names consist of three elements: (1.) The individual's given name and (3.) a parent's name, which is introduced by (2.) the nasab1 "gra" ("Daughter of") or "gro" ("Son of"), depending on the individual's gender. In one specific case we find the nasab "gor": This might be an error, or it could express that the individual's parent is unknown. Then it might be that the individual bears instead of the parent's name its foster-father's name; then the nasab "gor" could mean "foster-son of" (and respectively "gar" = "foster-daughter of"). Furthermore intercourse between Orcs and members of other peoples seems possible, this would explain an orcish name such as the Imperial-Orcish "Optio Bologra" or the more alien "Koffutto Gilgar". In such a case the rules of traditional Orcish nomenclature are invalidate."
It's also important to note that elves (including Khajiit) apart from Dunmer generally don't have surnames, for the few others it's usually just something like "the [insert job]" or "of [insert location]"...

Sorry I can't be more help than that...
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:49 am

I found the quote below in an interview on Til. I'm not sure if it is completely canon, but it may be the best text there is about Khajiit names.
From: http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/jobasha.shtml#Jobasha

If you don't mind me asking, my Ta'agra is not particularly good, what exactly does your name mean?

Jobasha:
Jobasha's name was chosen for the sound, not for any meaning. Some Khajiit go by nicknames that have meaning in the Ta'agra.

But surely there is some meaning to some Khajiit names?

Jobasha:
Khajiti names have patterns of meaning.

"Jo" in Jobasha's name means "wizard." But Jobasha is no wizard, just a humble bookseller.

"Dar" in a Khajiti name means "thief," but this should not alarm you. "Dar" is like the Nordic "Clever Hudvar" or the Breton "Arnand the Fox." A Khajiit with "Dar" in his name is clever, and maybe clever with his hands, but not always a thief by your odd Imperial property customs.

"Do" in a Khajiti name means warrior. "Do" is rarely used by modern Khajiit, except for the Mane's guards. And masters of Goutfang, Whispering Claw, and Rawlith Khaj, of course.

Goutfang, Whispering Claw and Rawlith Khaj - what are these?



Jobasha:
They are among the many Khajiti arts of claw and tail. Jobasha learned Rawlith Khaj before traveling to Vvardenfell. The name means "rain of sand," and the art has many styles such as Rain, Sand, Wind, Sun, Storm, and Two-Moons-Dance.

Don't Khajiti names also reflect their status?

Jobasha:
Khajiti men show their status in life with their names, unless they choose a nickname. In Jobasha's case, as a "scholar," Jobasha uses "Jo" alone, not "S'basha-Jo," for using two titles shows great ignorance or great pride.

"M" or "Ma" means "child" or "apprentice" or, in the vernacular, "virgin." As an apprentice can be of any age, this leads to misunderstandings and jokes Jobasha cannot translate.

"J," Ji," or "Ja" means a bachelor or young advlt. In the vernacular, it means one who is young and lacks experience.

"S" is the most common, and means simply an advlt.



"Ra" and "Ri" show high status. "Ri" is the highest status among the Khajiit, used by leaders of cities or tribes.

"Dro" means "grandfather" and shows respect.

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Sophie Louise Edge
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:42 pm

- Imperials have Latinesque ones usually, but there are some who don't, such as the population of Hackdirt

I think some have vaguely Czech or Slovenian names. Rislav. Jarol, Sintav, Odiil, Invel, Bincal.

- Redguards seem to be the most open when it comes to names; tending to have English names or variations thereof, or just...well, "fantasy" names

I think you're right there. They don't seem to have much consistency.

- Orcs have guttural-sounding names, with the surname having a gra- or gro- suffix denoting male or female, respectively

Interesting to note is that the prefix denotes a patronymic. See http://www.imperial-library.info/dogate/daggerfacts.shtml:

Remember Gortwog, the Orc-lord of Orsinium? His full name is Gortwog gro-Nagorm. It's the Orcish way of providing a patronymic (father's name); Nagorm was his pops. If Gortwog had a sister, she would've been gra-Nagorm.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Names might be a good resource for you. It includes all the names and surnames in both Morrowind and Oblivion.
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Siidney
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:55 pm

I think some have vaguely Czech or Slovenian names. Rislav. Jarol, Sintav, Odiil, Invel, Bincal.

Perhaps Polish or Slovenian, but definitely not Czech.
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jeremey wisor
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:59 pm

Perhaps Polish or Slovenian, but definitely not Czech.


What differs Czech names from other names, then? What "characteristics" does a Czech name have that, say, a Polish or an Irish name does not? I ask because my last name is supposedly Czech, and also because i'm just plain curious.
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lilmissparty
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:29 pm

Actually I don't know, it just sounds to me like that. (I am Czech)

For example Odiil - in Czech there will never be two i in a row.
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Campbell
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:59 pm

- Altmer and Bosmer seem to have the most typical fantasy setting names, but again, difficult to describe

Many of the Bosmer names look kind of Welsh-like to me.
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Micah Judaeah
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:42 am

Many of the Bosmer names look kind of Welsh-like to me.

I would disagree with you there. I am no expert, but I do know a bit about the Welah language. I looked over a list of Bosmer names and some of them sound Welsh but most actually resemble Tolkein Elven names. Tolkein was a Philologist and one of his favorite languages was Welsh, so names like Cirwedh, which looks somewhat Welsh, probably has some Welsh elements. Bosmer names have many elemenst of Tolkien names like Cin, Gorn. fin and dh's. Also some names like Celegorn, Thoronor, Aredhel and Methredhel come almost directly from some of Tolkien's writings.
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Misty lt
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:33 pm

Remember Gortwog, the Orc-lord of Orsinium? His full name is Gortwog gro-Nagorm. It's the Orcish way of providing a patronymic (father's name); Nagorm was his pops. If Gortwog had a sister, she would've been gra-Nagorm.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Names might be a good resource for you. It includes all the names and surnames in both Morrowind and Oblivion.


Had those round the wrong way then. And yes, I meant prefix lol not suffix.

What differs Czech names from other names, then? What "characteristics" does a Czech name have that, say, a Polish or an Irish name does not? I ask because my last name is supposedly Czech, and also because i'm just plain curious.


Irish names belong to an entirely different sub-branch of Indo-European languages, plus the fact Ireland is geographically isolated means they're even more different to other names. Polish and Czech names are both Slavic so are similar.
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NEGRO
 
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Post » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:23 am

I think some have vaguely Czech or Slovenian names. Rislav. Jarol, Sintav, Odiil, Invel, Bincal.


I would like it if these names corresponded to a clearly-defined difference between the Colovians and the Nibeneses, but I can't. Are the Latinish names Nibenese and the Slav-like Colovian? Or the reverse? I can't tell.Yoku

I think you're right there. They don't seem to have much consistency.

There are three types of Redguard names:
- Yoku (Ashanta, Gogan)
- Cyrodified (Baurus, Cyrus)
- Common (Jim, Neville)

Also, keep in mind intermarriage. When you've got a Redguard named Isleif (a Nord name) or one named Armand Cristophe (100% Pure Bretonish), you can expect that their father weren't Redguards themselves.
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Raymond J. Ramirez
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:29 pm

When you've got a Redguard named Isleif (a Nord name) or one named Armand Cristophe (100% Pure Bretonish), you can expect that their father weren't Redguards themselves.


Or they weren't supposed to be Redguards in the first place.

Just like Eronor, Nardhil, and Bongond weren't supposed to be Dark Elves.

Why?
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Misty lt
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:24 pm

"supposed to be"?
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Joey Avelar
 
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Post » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:39 am

This is what you'd call a bug.

Let say you create an NPC named Hlorman Raalo the Dunmeri Dunmer From Morrowind, and that for some reason why you select his race you misclick and he ends up being an Orc.


A known example is Hasphat Antabolis, who wasn't supposed to be an Imperial but a Dunmer (see Redguard Forum Madness on TIL obscure texts). Isleif and Armand are good candidate for similar misshapes.
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Rusty Billiot
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:32 pm

I'm not sure, but I believe the Dunmer names comes from some form of old/ancient Middle-Eastern/Egyptean/Sumerian thing... something.
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Joe Alvarado
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:53 pm

This is what you'd call a bug.

Let say you create an NPC named Hlorman Raalo the Dunmeri Dunmer From Morrowind, and that for some reason why you select his race you misclick and he ends up being an Orc.
A known example is Hasphat Antabolis, who wasn't supposed to be an Imperial but a Dunmer (see Redguard Forum Madness on TIL obscure texts). Isleif and Armand are good candidate for similar misshapes.


Always wondered about Hasphat Antabolis (he was an FG guy in Balmora if I recall); I thought the Antabolis part sounded suitably Imperial, but the Hasphat reminded me of something Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian =/
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Emmanuel Morales
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:18 pm

Always wondered about Hasphat Antabolis (he was an FG guy in Balmora if I recall); I thought the Antabolis part sounded suitably Imperial, but the Hasphat reminded me of something Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian =/

You can find several very outlandish names among the Imperials. I like to think that it's the Akaviri influence in the old Nibeneans.
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Sammygirl500
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:41 pm

You can find several very outlandish names among the Imperials. I like to think that it's the Akaviri influence in the old Nibeneans.


And lo! For [the SERPENT] walks upon his tail yet still amongst men, unbeknowst amongst the long grass, beyond the sight of [Tower's] eye!

it sounds better in Farsi...
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Catherine Harte
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:54 pm

You can find several very outlandish names among the Imperials. I like to think that it's the Akaviri influence in the old Nibeneans.

You'll probably find more Akaviri influence in the Redguard:
    "There is much in Redguard history which suggests ancient connections to the Tsaesci as well. Not only are many of the greatest heroes clearly influenced by Akaviri as well as Redguard culture - Gaiden Shinji, for example..."http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/writers.shtml

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Steve Bates
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:51 pm

From what I can tell there's three naming schemes for Dunmer in TES:

The modern 'settled Dunmer' form, used for the vast majority of Dunmer characters. Examples are names like: King Hlaalu Helseth, Tholer Saryoni, Bolvyn Venim, etc.

The older 'Velothi' style, as for all Ashlanders and also the Dunmer in the ancient town of Gnisis, as well as a few other scattered individuals. The same style is used for Daedric ruins and most caves too. Kummu, Maebani and Munbebi are examples. (It's actually based on real languages Sumerian, Assyrian and Akkadian, some lifted straight and others just taking the form)

Very very rarely you'll find a Dunmer with a one-word name in the Altmer/Bosmer style. Lauravenya in Ald Velothi, for example. Possibly this is the 'bug' aluded to above where the wrong race was put in by the Devs, although it does occur more than once.



Look for patterns using the info here: http://www.imperial-library.info/zeph/TES_Tre_2_05.shtml You'll be able to see what letters and letter-groupings Dunmer names tend to use, and which they don't use at all. Do bear in mind the two main different naming conventions though - Ashlander 'Velothi' names tend towards different sounds than modern Dunmer names.
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Toby Green
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:07 pm

it sounds better in Farsi...

No duh! So hurry up and type it. :P
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Alada Vaginah
 
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Post » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:55 am

I would disagree with you there. I am no expert, but I do know a bit about the Welah language. I looked over a list of Bosmer names and some of them sound Welsh but most actually resemble Tolkein Elven names. Tolkein was a Philologist and one of his favorite languages was Welsh, so names like Cirwedh, which looks somewhat Welsh, probably has some Welsh elements. Bosmer names have many elemenst of Tolkien names like Cin, Gorn. fin and dh's. Also some names like Celegorn, Thoronor, Aredhel and Methredhel come almost directly from some of Tolkien's writings.

Well yes, I'm aware of that connection. They can still be "kind of Welsh-like" even if it's by way of Tolkien's Elvish. I do think they seem slightly more "Welsh-like" than the Altmer names, which are also Tolkienish, but I can't really put my finger on why.
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sw1ss
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:09 pm

Well yes, I'm aware of that connection. They can still be "kind of Welsh-like" even if it's by way of Tolkien's Elvish. I do think they seem slightly more "Welsh-like" than the Altmer names, which are also Tolkienish, but I can't really put my finger on why.

Again, I'm no expert and I am not trying to critiscize your opinions. I can see that. The Altmer do have some Tolkeinish names like Ilmiril. the miril is very Tolkein-ish. It may have even been invented by Tolkein.
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clelia vega
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:23 am

Upon further investigation, I think that, via Tolkein, that Bosmer/Altmer names in TES are at least from Brythonic roots if not necessarily via Welsh or any particular language. See for example some of the Knights of the Round Table: Gawain, Galahad, Bedivere,
Agravain...
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Charles Weber
 
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Post » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Tolkien was apparently influenced by Finnish as well. This would be seen in some Altmeri names.
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Kelli Wolfe
 
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