A thought just occurred to me as I was reading a thread on which mods "made it" into Skyrim. What if, and I'm speaking purely in theoretical terms, Bethesda purposely leaves things out of their games specifically for us to add to, fix and change them? What if they are doing it on purpose as a favor to modders... Giving us something to do, giving us a beautiful and wonderful sandbox high fantasy game that we can literally do anything with... They didn't go to all the trouble they did making Skyrim already amazing just to purposely leave some things out. I think there's truly a hidden message here, a kind of thanks to us and a reward. Another blank canvas if you will.

Why else, besides some added long-term revenue, would they continue to release and support a construction set/kit?

What are your thoughts on this?

Honestly, I don't think they operate that way. And if they did, that'd be seriously dikeish.

Why would it be dikeish? What if the game was PERFECT for every single player and nobody wanted to change anything yet they release a CK anyways? Some people already think the game is perfect as is. Why couldn't there be a hidden message from Bethesda to it's devoted PC and modding userbase? Maybe they really are doing things purposely because we need that extra little bit of personalization...

I'm convinced that Bethesda makes the game that they want to play that is playable. That's their main focus.

They also add a lot of stuff and a lot of open ended functionality in their creation of the game. However, I dont think
they make the game unfinished in order for it to be modded later. Skyrim shows this most notably with how all the
items have a culture...if it was designed to be changed later, it wouldn't have such good coherence. Oblivion has
the lack of coherence problem, but I think that's just because it was a rushed game.

I'm not saying Skyrim is unfinished. It's not. It's very much complete, but there are certain things not really going on in the world that one might expect. I can't go over everything I think may be left out on purpose but it's almost as if Beth has somehow managed to build a completely fluid and full-featured experience and still leave much for modders to add to it. Like I said, if the game was perfect for everyone or perfect as is, why release a CK?

Not a chance, for several reasons. First, because their primary audience does not and can not use mods (due to playing on consoles). Second... actually, I think the first can hold its own here, and doesn't need any additional reasons.

You're all missing the point. Not once did I say the game was unfinished or lacking. It's near-perfect in my opinion. What I'm saying is that while the game is amazing as is in it's current vanilla state (for most people), Bethesda may be secretly giving us breathing room.

No, your thought has no merit for two reasons.

one, console users cannot access that "left out to be done by modders" bit.

and two, that they work in such a way where the thought "ah lets not do that, lets leave it to the modders"
They don't.

I think it might be possible that they leave the hooks in place for things that didn't make the final cut but they are well aware that that 80% of their customer base has no access to mods so leaving things out on purpose isn't really good business for them.

Again you're missing the point. Forget it. It's like trying to explain the paranormal to a skeptic.

What I think you're seeing, and I might be wrong, is that Bethesda is getting away from the style we're used to, which is more like pen-and-paper style RPG, and more towards first-person-shooter style adventure RPG. That's the way it seems to me. I don't know why, but with all the hints that they make more money off consoles and the types of games consolers typically play, it tends to lean to the style they are moving towards. Which svcks for people that enjoy it much more the original way. Then they give us the CS to let us put it back the way we want. So they get their money, we (PC users) get the game the way we like.

It's not exactly an ideal method, and I still feel like they are forgetting their roots. I do feel a bit shunned, but if this is the only way we're going to be able to get the game to be the way we like it, then I guess we have to accept it. It's certainly way better this way then to keep moving towards a more action-adventure oriented game and NOT give us the CS so we can change it back to the style we prefer.

I see your point, but I feel its just in the nature of their game design. They make the game in an editable form(while they're developing it)
and I feel they more or less release it in that same editable form...The difference between how its done with Beth and other companies is
that other companies don't leave the game in an editable form at all. They lock you off like someone previously stated. So the feeling you
get I think is just that difference in how the the finished product is shipped out.

No. It's like trying to explain something that has no foundation in anything resembling reality or good business practices to someone who has more than half a brain.

You have an interesting concept of "good" business practices. And why the insults?

You think deliberately cutting features or content in order to give the modding community "something to do" is good business?

I don't think I was particularly insulting. What's insulting is the idea that everyone in this thread has someone "missed the point." We have not missed the point. The OP is just wrong. That's not insulting, it's simply my frank assessment of the situation.

Your point is well seen. And we all disagree. That is your problem.

A favor?!

Of course they leave things knowing the modders will fix them. Take a look at the UI. They know modders will fix it, so they spent no time creating a UI for PC. This isn't them doing PC players a favor, this is them saving themselves money. Bethesda and companies in general aren't out to do you "favors" they are there to make money.

It is my firm belief that the Bethesda developers responsible for the Elderscrolls games simply make the game they would want to play/own.

Your snippet on "trying to explain the paranormal to a skeptic" has no merit either. a Skeptic is a skeptic until they experience something. if your going to use anologies like that, then atleast have it sync with your proposal. there is no reason to give "breathing room" to a small slice of the pie graph and screw over the rest of the Pie. also I question your knowlegde on modding in general as you seem to assume that even if Beth filled the game with an ass load of content and filled an inconcievable about of bases/factors/gameplay features in their game that Modders would some how be out of work, YOU of all people should know this really.


nothings perfect, and people have preferences, modders address these aspects, but they aren't ment to "fix" or "restore" anything.

OP, I think you're being awfully kind to Bethesda. No matter what they, or any company, releases people are going to want to make changes where they can. Sneakily rewarding modders by leaving it in such a streamlined (read "lackluster") state seems like a bit of stretch. As has been stated, most people won't even be playing with mods, and most of us who do aren't modders ourselves, and a fairly good portion of us are playing with mods that change the game in ways we think it should have originally included (UI, anybody?). Until then, a ton of people complain about it, a few silly people actually make threads about suing companies that don't deliver the goods, and in the meantime I can't imagine anyone at Bethesda saying, "Yeah, but at least we made the modders happy, just like we meant to."

Gaming companies aren't like they used to be. Deadlines are set and decisions are made about products based more on meeting those deadlines and raking in the dough rather than making a less than perfect game to give a wink and a nudge to modders. I bet if they had more time, there's a ton of stuff that developers would love to add to the game, but with the way the gaming industry runs now it's more about how limited it needs to be so that DLC can be released and they can make more money. If anything, I think games are released in less than "perfect" condition (since you don't seem to like people saying "unfinished" or "broken" without telling them they don't see the point) because there's more money to be made adding it in later.

That wasn't really necessary.

Getting back on topic... I see things differently than a lot of people. What I see, you may not, and I guess I can't fully explain what I mean because it's unique to me. I just feel like Bethesda accomplished something very interesting, in theory, and I was trying to see what other people thought. I figured, as modders, some of us might be cut from the same log, ya know? As a modder I feel it is my job to look deeper than the surface. I thought many of the rest of you were like this, but perhaps it is not so.

Could a mod please close this thread? It's been derailed and tainted into something I never intended.

are you truely and honestly holding the thought that Bethesda is "leaving space" for modders? even when Todd and Co say "this is the biggest and craziest game we've ever made" or that "theres to much stuff" ? seriously. and whats with you, because others don't share your thoughts there is no discussion to be had? sigh.

Well, it's not your "job" to do anything. You mod because it gives you pleasure... because you like to look "deeper than the surface" and create something from your (and other people's) pool of ideas. I think most modders and non-modders do the same thing when they create or ask someone to create.

I always love when the tone gets all faux-lofty and snotty on both sides of a discussion. Or wait... I mean I HATE that.

I don't have time to edit and clean-up tonight, so this one is getting put to bed.