Japanese Video Game Archetypes

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:25 pm

Only thing that mildly get's me about Japanese games are the bullet-hell shumps---for love of mike you can have screen full of purple bullets and there're players who can doge 'em in their sleep :bonk: .

As said, practice, memorization and tiny hit boxes. Most also have quite a bit of slowdown that makes dodging bullets easier. Knowing precisely when to use bombs (which cancel out enemy bullets) helps make seemingly impossible bosses/bullet patterns manageable.
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:39 am

The laziest answer is just "pop culture phase". Remember when people wouldn't shut up about metrosixuals? Remember the 70's? Maybe not, but you've probably seen many things making fun of the era and its big hair and big pants and whatnot. Or perhaps those stereotypical depictions of the 50's, where men all had square heads and smoked a pipe and were incapable of saying anything that wasn't either fatherly advice or dismissive patronizing of women. Or for a more modern example, look at Justin Bieber. He's one in a long line of manufactured pop stars, specifically designed to target the desires and wallets of a specific demographic. Much as some people act like ridiculous drama queens hating him and his supposed lack of manliness, it doesn't change his popularity, or the waves of functionally identical singers that came before, and will likely follow.

Things are similar in Japan. Corporations churn out glam boy-bands in a simultaneous effort to both cash in on, and sustain, that current fad. I see a lot of westerners decry this look, because they are apparently absolutely certain that what a man trying to look attractive should look like has nothing to do with what women find attractive, and the legions of female fans are just a coincidence. A lot of what people "should" look like is just passing fashion, and that's the fashion; what appeals to women, and what's a goal for men, until fashion dictates something new.

Also worth noting is the all-male nature of Kabuki theater, in which women were banned from performing. In order to put on shows that had female characters, the more feminine-looking actors simply dressed as women. This was done for hundreds of years, and the role of the androgynous male became its own separate, distinguished part, one with its own fans and which people expected to see. I would assume it's a normal part of their culture to expect a few characters who fill that role, and as was mentioned above, to expect protagonists in that role because fashion has made it popular for the moment.
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NIloufar Emporio
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 6:07 am

Japanese don't like themselves, let alone foreigners. :teehee:

Maybe the comments I've seen from 2ch have made me biased.
I would assume 2ch scewed your results. Becuse 4ch also hates everything.

Short answer: because FF7 was a huge hit in Japan, and they've been ripping off Cloud Strife and Sephiroth ever since (the giant sword is now even known as the "buster sword" after its name in FF7.) What, you didn't think the western games market was the only one that made endless shallow copies of its most popular ideas, did you? :tongue:

As for the spiky hair, same answer as above, except substitute "Dragon Ball" for FF7. Akira Toriyama is almost a national treasure, and his signature style is... spiky haired youths like Goku. :wink:

Longer answer: Japanese culture is inescapably tied to the status of the sword, as historically it was a symbol of the authority of the samurai class. It's kind of like the lightsaber, it turns normal everyday peasants into world-saving heroes and unlocks the mysteries of the universe for its wielder, etc. The Japanese are also fascinated by European history and tradition (in the same way that some here are fascinated by ninjas) and they often lift elements for a fusion of both cultures - thus Zelda is a typical Asian "mystic quest" adventure, yet set in a seemingly middle-English world: it's the appeal of the extraordinary. On that note, it's not hard to see the "buster sword" as an over-exaggeration of a heavy English broadsword or claymore, compared to the nimbler, more slender katanas.

Also, Japanese humor tends to be a little more over-the-top than most in the west. :biggrin:
That explains some things, I never understood why anime didnt have Asian people, they all look western, but with stupid hair.
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Davorah Katz
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 6:08 pm

That explains some things, I never understood why anime didnt have Asian people, they all look western, but with stupid hair.
The modern "anime" style is very heavily influenced by older Disney cartoons. The old http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/AstroBoy1963.jpg wouldn't have looked out of place next to http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6ZHfNlk9YGo/SSSUCi2_StI/AAAAAAAABIY/kTIUl068m1o/s400/Mickey-004.gif or other black and white cartoons, and the giant-eyes look is still prominent today.
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Charlie Sarson
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:56 am

http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/comics/2011-08-29.jpg

I was about to link to that...so have http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/1002 and http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/1006 instead.
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Nathan Barker
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:37 pm

That explains some things, I never understood why anime didnt have Asian people, they all look western, but with stupid hair.
That depends on the era. A lot of anime from the 80s had a more realistic art style, but it seems that realism isn't so popular anymore.

The 90s era is my favorite style, before all the art was computer drawn and pumped with moe.
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LittleMiss
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:12 pm

Only to a baka gaijin like you. :tongue:
I don't speak the language of your Chinese cartoons, son. :stare:
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FirDaus LOVe farhana
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:27 pm

... and pumped with moe.

What is moe?
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 9:41 am

What is moe?
I guess you could consider it an archetype in itself.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe
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no_excuse
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 9:01 am

Lately lots of Japanese culture has been meh. From games, to movies, and music. Western and Eastern just seem to be diverging more and more with each decade. Don't get me wrong, I do like stuff from there. But for me it's well past what I would call a "golden age". I just want Monster Hunter, but Capcom is going all insular on us again. Instead of having one forum to cover everything us westerners who want to play their game have been kicked into our own dusty section of the capcom forums known as monster hunter imports. Every passing day it's looking less and less likely we'll see anything but more of the same from Capcom. This is an attitude shared by a lot of developers, they only develop for Japanese people. Western games never took off there, barring a few exceptions. Though I wish we could be more accessible in sharing games. It seems like only the generic anime or moe style stuff is making its way over here.

Edit
The irony is Capcom's forum is known as unity.

Edit
Oh god, they're releasing Dragon's Dogma the "monster hunter answer for the west." You know what's going to happen? Not be a success. Why? Not on PC where a hardcoe game like this would be appreciated. *sigh* Why do Japanese people insist on being so dogmatically narrow viewed. I wish there was some kind of place to go and talk to the average Japanese gamer and find out what the markets on that side expect ect. Just talk and do research really get to know th eculture for a few months and then try and start something up. There's got to be a way instead of both sides turning away from each other like children.
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stevie critchley
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 5:00 pm

I guess you could consider it an archetype in itself.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe

I see. I'd like to see a show about a moe, provided we're not asked to condescend to her/him, and that he/she isn't annoyingly quirky or cute. A show about your average Plain Jane/Joe Schmoe in a whacky world would be kind of cool.
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Beth Belcher
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:07 am

Believe it or not, I am a big Soul Calibur fan. Essentially, the Azure Knight (Nightmare) is the embodiment of all of the hatred and souls contained within... a sword. Soul Edge, or rather the entity composing Soul Edge, Inferno, takes form within the azure armor and thus becomes Nightmare. This is because Siegfried wised up that his body was being enslaved by Inferno, a sword, after being hit by another sword.
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Add Me
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 1:59 pm

You'll notice that a lot of anime deals with the transition from childhood to advlthood, which seems to be a particularly big concern in Japanese culture, especially because such a hyper-technological and advanced space leaves little room for social development and interaction. I guess anime is a way to facilitate "growing up". It's a stop-gap measure for a social lacuna. Also, a lot of Japanese advlts are just really unhappy with their lot and want to think back to an easier, "better" time, the time just before they made the wrong choices, or didn't measure up. This time, because of a confluence of cultural and societal influences, is often their teenage years.

This doesn't explain why men look like women, but it does explain the preoccupation with prepubascence and teenage-hood.

I wish some academics would go about investigating Japanese culture from the perspective of anime. It would explain at least 75% of what Japan is all about.

Buddy... you just won the Internet.

Seriously... you have completely explained the "Soul Calibur V" plot to me before I'd even played it.

WARNING - SOUL CALIBUR V SPOILERS AHEAD - THOUGH YOU SHOULD BE WARNED... IT IS GENERALLY ACKNOWELDEGED, EVEN AT THIS EARLY STAGE, THAT THE LATEST STORY MODE IN SOUL CALIBUR V IS A PILE OF PANTS

So years go by after "Soul Calibur IV" and Sophitia's son, Patroklos, is struggling with the burdens of adolescence and responsibility.

He is seeking to reunite his family and in the end makes the "right decision" but this leaves him sure he could have made a "better decision".

The "Soul Calibur" sword enables him to go back and re-write history (becoming larger as he becomes more experienced) until he is finally able to re-make his choices that allow him to return everything to the status quo he had before he and his sister hit adolescence and left the house.

You hit everything on the head so squarely there it's frightening.

Az
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мistrєss
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:55 am

Buddy... you just won the Internet.

Seriously... you have completely explained the "Soul Calibur V" plot to me before I'd even played it.

...

You hit everything on the head so squarely there it's frightening.

Az

Hahah. Cool. Thanks. I've been feeling kind of dumb today, so this was welcome. +1 internets for me!
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Rudy Paint fingers
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:12 pm

Why do western games have the archetypes that they have? If you know the answer to that you know the answer to the question in the OP. Different cultural values and influences are key when we're talking about these archetypes. Why do western games (http://cdn.gunaxin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mymasters1.jpg) feature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kratos_God_of_War_III.jpg as their protagonist?

It's essentially the same reason why Japanese games have their archetypes. Different cultural values on what they apply to their characters just as we westerners apply to our characters.

If you think we don't have our own weird values and customs you're sadly mistaken :tongue:
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katsomaya Sanchez
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:44 am

Why do western games have the archetypes that they have? If you know the answer to that you know the answer to the question in the OP. Different cultural values and influences are key when we're talking about these archetypes. Why do western games (http://cdn.gunaxin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mymasters1.jpg) feature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kratos_God_of_War_III.jpg as their protagonist?

It's essentially the same reason why Japanese games have their archetypes. Different cultural values on what they apply to their characters just as we westerners apply to our characters.

If you think we don't have our own weird values and customs you're sadly mistaken :tongue:
But the Western ones aren't as weird. In Japan he'd be a half-naked muscular prepubascent girl.
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Pat RiMsey
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 5:59 am

But the Western ones aren't as weird. In Japan he'd be a half-naked muscular prepubascent girl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hokuto_no_Ken_%28manga_cast%29.JPG People usually don't find things they're accustomed to weird, so people in Japan probably think their stuff is normal.
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:11 pm

Western - http://www.gearsofwar3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gearsofwar42qg01.jpg

Eastern - http://ffrecipes.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/basch.jpg?w=300&h=272



I don't know about you guys, but the guy on top looks like a moronic brute and the guy on bottom looks more respectable, to me.
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Stace
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hokuto_no_Ken_%28manga_cast%29.JPG People usually don't find things they're accustomed to weird, so people in Japan probably think their stuff is normal.
Yes, whether or not a people think something is weird or not is subjective, but I mean, come on, they squeeze little girls into everything, that's not just weird from a western stand point...

Western - http://www.gearsofwar3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gearsofwar42qg01.jpg

Eastern - http://ffrecipes.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/basch.jpg?w=300&h=272



I don't know about you guys, but the guy on top looks like a moronic brute and the guy on bottom looks more respectable, to me.
I'd prefer the medium. Unfortunately that doesn't exist these days. It's also important to note, Marcus is the extreme western, and the Eastern one is mild in comparison to other Eastern things.
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elliot mudd
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 10:54 am

Maybe Japanese people don't like laser guns, aliens, and realistic battles with realistic guns and people. Which is a big part of western gaming.
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Devils Cheek
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:04 am

Western - http://www.gearsofwar3blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gearsofwar42qg01.jpg

Eastern - http://ffrecipes.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/basch.jpg?w=300&h=272

Other Eastern - http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/6/68/Dissidia_Kuja.png

:tongue:

Strongly prefer the second (Akihiko Yoshida's designs are brilliant), the third doesn't actually bother me though. Beefy, gritty, manly men annoy me far more than gender bending pretty boys ever will.
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Lynette Wilson
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 6:29 am

:tongue:

Strongly prefer the second (Akihiko Yoshida's designs are brilliant), the third doesn't actually bother me though. Beefy, gritty, manly men annoy me far more than gender bending pretty boys every will.
Kuja... I've been playing FFIX, recently and actually recognize him, now.
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Roberta Obrien
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 1:06 pm

Just don't search for images of him... ever.
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Janette Segura
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:32 am

Just don't search for images of him... ever.
I can imagine why...
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Natasha Biss
 
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Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:37 am

Yes, whether or not a people think something is weird or not is subjective, but I mean, come on, they squeeze little girls into everything, that's not just weird from a western stand point...
Most of our girls don't have more than a http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr6rh9PrFN1qzktb0.jpg to actual human anatomy.
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Juliet
 
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