My argument boils down, if you don't look for it, you won't find it. Bethesda games are about exploration even your options fall under this point. Sorry my idea of an computer RPG isn't follow the questmarker and hear dialoge only where I can make then the big, big descisions which actually ending up in a messagebox and a little mention in the endcredits. The medium computergame can do so much more in the meantime. Sure Bethesda isn't perfect in this field but actually they are pretty good.

Nipton was a deliberate act of political terror designed to instill fear of the Legion in everyone traveling between the NCR and New Vegas.

Yeah?

Clear Corvega for me without killing one and open up that questline.

Find and release Nick and then go talk to Kellogg and advance the main quest without killing anyone and sneaking your way through.

Complete any of the "these bandits are hassling us, please deal with them" radiant quests without killing anyone

Complete any of the four main questlines without killing anyone

Do the first mission for Father without killing anyone

Do the first mission for Danse without killing anyone

OP is correct. cherry picking individual instances where you stole a locket by sneaking is irrelevant. This forum has plenty of instances for lost - obvious - roleplaying opportunities that Bethesda decided to go the other way on:
- go race a robot at the track and let me know how that ends
- go talk to someone in the combat zone
- go join the Forged when the boss is proud of your work

I saw the most Debates and Polls here since Release about more Variety Ingame, and over 50% wanted more. Maybe you just want see "your" Source? And what da [censored] is so bad on having more Variety Ingame?

go buy a first person non shooter...wow

Did I say all of them could be completed without killing? No.

I was just pointing out that, on those quests where killing is not required, you don't have to kill.

Both my examples were specific. Abernathy quest was just to retrieve the locket. There was no killing involved if you don't need to.

You were required to kill Kendra, Smiling Kate and that other guy, not their minions.

Sure, Corvega - I can't remember whether or not you're only required to kill the leader, but, it is possible. I've been to Corvega twice without killing anyone (entered through hatch) just to take stuff.

You don't have to kill anybody to rescue Nick. You can have Darla kill fatty if you want, or I've even known them to kill each other. It ain't easy, but... and I suppose you do have to kill one of them, so I'll give you that.

We didn't kill anybody on the first mission with Danse. We only killed synths. It wasn't that big a deal.

Don't think it's possible with Father's quest.

etc...

I didn't say you can play the game without killing, I said, it is possible to do plenty of quests without killing everything in sight. What about delivering the egg?

Yes, it's cherry picking, but that's part of roleplaying.

I've been through the game killing everything in my way (I'm on my 4th and 5th runthroughs). On this one, I'm not killing everybody. I'm not even killing all of the hostiles (I like to shoot off their arm and cripple their legs - doesn't always work, but their bleed out will kill them, not me).

I enjoy killing as much as the next guy, but it strikes me that so many of you folks that are complaining are comparing everything to the endless blather of FNV. Talk... talk... talk... talk... talk... talk... talk... and everything always ends up the same in the end. I loved NV, but all that talking got on my nerves.

I don't play games or even RP for endless conversations, negotiations and options. I kill when I need to, I charm when I need to, I hack a computer and have robots and turrets kill my enemies when I need to (Faindal Hall).

Sure, it would be nice to have other options, but can you even imagine the coding and writing that would be needed for so many permutations? 7 years was long enough.

For those that are so dissatisfied, if you're on PC - mod it (hey we have mods now that make enemies in to Jesse "The Body" Ventura and Thomas the Tank Engine). If you are dissatisfied and don't have that option, here's a thought - DON'T PLAY THE GAME. For God's sake. You spent, tops, $100 on this game. If you can't enjoy what you bought, that's on you. There are 100s of thousands of other people that adore the game.

It's not perfect. Nothing ever is. It's a game. That's all.

I like it. Nuff said.

In Undertale it's possible to go the entire game without killing anyone. Really fun game.

Hmm...

I did not know that.

Not really in to pacifism myself, although I do have an alchemist/illusionist character that I've played in Skyrim for years on and off that has 0 kills of any sort and she's at level 85. Sure she doesn't get a lot done questwise, but it's still a fun playthrough.

I did watch the entire video...the point is you can minimize the killing if it bothers you...so slamming a game that is a number one seller that appeals to a lot of people because you don't like violence and post it on the forum is a waste of time...play it how you want...that's why I left Destiny because people on forums were complaining causing a lot of unnecessary "buffs and nerfs" to the game and ruined it...this game gives you the freedom to play hundreds of styles of playthrough's at your own choice and creativity...we haven't even got the first of four DLC's yet which will probably address a lot of issues and concerns...I got my money's worth despite the game not being 100% perfect.

Ya, we need more endless fetch quests, like the other games.

okaaaaaayyy then.

I can see where you're coming from and it's the "twist everything I can in order to fit my preconceived notion world."

You blow off someone's leg and they bleed out, I've got news for you honey: you killed them. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

BTW, I do enjoy the game, and Bethesda is the only company I will pre-order from, and I've got my hours in and am already planning my next run through while still in my 2nd. I can roleplay - 35+ years at the table, thanks very much - but I'm not so blind to be able to call a spade a spade: Bethesda throttled back on the none-kill options in this title. Period.

Maybe it was time, maybe it was money, maybe it was their conscious decision from the very first day and they wanted it no other way. None of that matters, because the result is the result: none-kill options are a very, very, very small part of this game, and the only way that has been done was by having someone else do the killing for you (some gaming site did it recently). So whether you get someone to do the killing for you, blow off a leg and let them bleed out, or accidentally-on-purpose knock them into a threshing machine/trap/mine/wild Bhramin: the simple and unavoidable fact is thusly: Fallout 4 requires killing as a solution to more quests (as a number and percentage) than the previous titles.

Now you go back to blowing off limbs and giggling that you didn't actually kill the person, while I'll go back to trying to roleplay why my character is okay with so much slaughter as the answer ...

while extremely difficult, its possible to do in F4, too. Just read an article about a guy who did.

Initially, no. They fixed it after that extended final.

???

Fallout 3 a lot of quests? Hehe.

Yet in the game it clearly has it shown that the raiders don't just kill everyone. They have tolls where they rob people, even at Abernathy farm it is suggested that as long as you don't resist them the situation will end peacefully(although you will be robbed), they have an agreement with Bunker Hill to not rob the caravans, they accept recruits, yet, they are KOS to the Survivor. Gunners the same, why KOS? They are a merc group, McCready joined them, why can't you, or at the LEAST work out an arrangement where they don't just try to kill you, even if you can't join them or raiders.

Feral Ghouls and Super Mutants are hostile of course, probably not much can be done there, except maybe if Strong was companion SM wouldn't attack, I dunno(obviously in NV there is a settlement of non-KOS SM). The game clearly has the mechanics to not set factions to KoS you, synths for example will become non-hostile. If the wasteland was that violent how in the world are these settlements with 2 people still alive? That doesn't make sense.

First off, I highly doubt that in FO 3 people just ran up and started blasting away at Paradise Falls. They probably at least talked to them first and made a decision from there. Not everyone is going to want to work with slavers, but at least the option was there for those of us who would. I don't think people ignore options, they explore them and make a choice, just because you THINK a certain percentage all make the same choice isn't an excuse to thus eliminate other choices from the game in future titles. Hell, a big criticism of FO 3 was no interaction with Talon Company, no way to join them or talk to them, and FO 4 did same thing with Gunners. People want options.

This is incorrect and the gentleman who did it states as much of the limitations: lots of reloads and getting NPCs to do the killing for you. That is completely not the same as "going through the game without killing someone." It took the gentleman HOURS to do Kellogg alone, because he had to get NPCs to do the killing blow. C'mon, talk about cheeseballing.

"arrrgghhh, " I hear those disquieted voices, "but he didn't actually kill anyone. Not truly. Not himself. Directly. It was completely indirectly."

To whit:

http://kotaku.com/guy-beats-fallout-4-without-killing-anyone-nearly-brea-1749882569

Read it. read it carefully. there are too many quote in here worth sharing.

I'm just going to roll with this bit:

There are 59 quests in Fallout 3, in case you didn't know.

What do you think about running away from enemies? Thats how it was done in New Vegas, the quests could be solved diplomatically but the combat encounters had no option to resolve them without running away. In Fallout 4 there's the intimidation perk to add some more stuff onto that playstyle.

don't need to re read it.
I did say extremely difficult, didn't I?
My assertion as that it wasn't impossible.
Never said it was practical.
Cheers.

Nobody has to die at all when you rescue Nick.

You can sneak past everyone going in, and coming out except at the end where you are confronted by Darla and Skinny Malone. A little bit of fast talking will convince Darla to leave. A little bit more and Skinny will give you the count of 10 to get out. Nobody has to die. The only reason people kill everything in sight is they are too lazy to look for another solution.

I'll just stop you there. If you didn't read it, you have no idea what "extremely difficult" means. I provided the materials, if you refuse to self-illuminate, then there's nothing more to be discussed.

then stop discussing it with me.
I read the article a week ago.
Again, cheers.

I'm not talking about the situation involving the Legion in this instance. IIRC (been a little bit), the Mayor was trying balance between the Powder Gangers and NCR troopers to maximize monetary flow through Nipton.

The Powder Gangers wouldn't just go in and kill the people of Nipton, because while the NCR was absent they would go into the town as visitors and while the Powder Gangers were absent the NCR would be the spenders.

There was a lot more to Nipton than just an introduction to the cruelty the Legion uses to further its agenda.

Well, not all encounters had to be run from. Some perks opened up for negating combat, where others without the perk, really didn't have that option ( http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Terrifying_Presence) Combat with animals could be avoided entirely ( http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Animal_Friend ) Having ED-E's perception perk, let you see enemies from far away, so you could avoid them altogether (add in Boone's spotter perk and your range of "sight" was out of this world) With well enough sneak, you could avoid all non-scripted encounters, so running away, was always a last ditch option anyways. Then there are a couple more perks you could use for buying time to get out of close combat ( Paralyzing Palm unarmed move paralyzed enemies in 30 seconds, and a special Khan move you could learn from them, let you throw sand in enemies eyes, temporarily stunning them as well)

As for FO4, the intimidation perk doesn't always make sense. I mean, come'on, intimidate a Deathclaw? Intimidate a computer program (synth's, Handies and Assaultrons)? Ghouls?

Both games have flaws *shrug*

The player had NPCs do all of the killing, in which case it isn't a pacifist playthrough.

Unless you're telling me that if I were to go around using others to commit hundreds of murders then my hands are completely clean. Or I mean.. If I were to nuke a bunch of people because I didn't agree with their ideologies then that's not killing..