Let's nitpick a bit : Othor Games

» Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:27 am

I've seen many people on this forum say that the plot isn't the strongest side of Dishonored. So Iet's discuss our less favourite parts of the plot: speech lines, character traits, plot inadequacies - everything.

I'll start with my four pet peeves.

First two are minor - just some things that I'd like to be developed more.

1) It's a pity that such an interesting motive as Sokolov's obsession with the Outsider didn't get enough attention. I expected Sokolov to react after he had seen Corvo's mark and had met Piero, who was also connected very closely with the Void.

2) I also expected Pendleton to comment on Lady Boyle's portrait - to try to guess which of them she is, based on his (supposed) sixual exploits with Boyle's women.

3) I strongly dislike that Callista calls Corvo assassin before the Campbell mission. He is not yet. He has always been Lord Protector.

Though in the description of TBW Corvo is called "the Royal Bodyguard and Assassin" (for the first time, as far as I know), so, maybe that really was in his job description. But then she says that he had been a bodyguard before he became an assassin.

4) And this one I hate with passion. It is Daud saying "I forgive you" to Billie. It is so out of character! I can imagine him (in low chaos) either killing her, which would be a gift, or just sending away as a thing that disgusts him and interests no more. To forgive a traitor that had been your favourite student, but then not only tried to kill you, but also caused deaths of many of your people - what is he, a saint? I don't think that him expecting one of his people to try to kill him is relevant in her case.

» Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:34 am

Interesting read. I did make a few posts a while back about the problems I have with the writing, but I'll need to wait until the morning (iPad's useless for posting links and quotes).

1) That brings up an interesting point: I don't recall any of the hub-area characters ever actually saying anything about your power beyond "huh?", let alone show any interest in it.

3) This also makes little because if Havelock is only just explaining this plan to Corvo, how does Callista know you've just been given the job of being an assassin? I know she's technically part of the loyalists, but surely Havelock would want to keep their exact strategy a secret till it's ripe for execution? Another frustrating thing along these lines is that the main dialogue remains unchanged regardless of whether you killed the target or not; instead they just use neutral wording like "eliminated" or "disposed of" to avoid having to record extra dialogue. I'd like to see a few more dynamic reactions to my actions, make it feel like I'm shaping the story and not just choosing between "route A" and "route B".

4) Agreed. In fact, that whole scene was a little sloppy in terms of dialogue. Maybe at the end of BW DLC we'll see Daud take a redemptive path, but in KoD we're only really half-way there, so you'd expect some slightly more ambiguous dialogue like "leave, before I change my mind" or words to that effect. That way you may get a sense that Daud is on his way to redemption without being too heavy-handed about it.

Another feeling I get with with #4 is that is might have something to do with accommodating both high chaos and low chaos outcomes. Baby trying the mould the story based on two starkly different outcomes, it ultimately diminishes the impact of the endings.

By the way, just so I'm clear: I hope my posts never give off the impression that I think Dishonored is a bad game. I only whine about the game because of how much I like it and want to see it improve in the future.

» Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:09 pm

I hope you'll find those posts. I'd like to talk about what you find lacking in the plot.

I agree that it'd be nice if the ambient dialogue reflected player's actions more, at least the chaos level. I felt disappointed when Cecilia was happy to see Corvo on high chaos run. I dunno what good she could expect from high chaos Corvo.

When I let Billie leave, I'm usually like "No, you haven't said that! It didn't happen!". A really immersion-breaking moment for me.

By the way it seems to me that all the Whaler assassins' names are so artificial, so theatrical. They probably choose aliases whwn they are accepted in the Daud's gang.

That's why I used "nitpicking" in the name of topic. >< Didn't want it to sound too negative.

» Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:24 am

Here's the original topic:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1440772-anyone-elsewelldisappointed/

...and what I said on the matter:

Spoiler

InDIGnation, on 02 Feb 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:
I do somewhat agree. The problem is that Arkane put a huge amount of effort into the history and design of Dunwall; but it just gives the impression of a once-prosperous city.

Let me explain a bit by using Thief as an example. Thief's city was never given a name, a clear history nor even an official size, and yet it feels much more believable than Dunwall which Arkane put a huge amount of effort into designing and writing its history. In Thief, it was because of the guards and characters in general that the city felt alive; even the generic guards were given a degree of personality and very little of what they said was actually relevant to your objective; same goes for your character's passive comments. Dishonored's dialogue however is the opposite; it was written as if its only purpose was to get the player from point A to point B, for example...

Spoiler

when the overseers in the Campbell mission are discussing the Heretic's brand.

It feels like a game level because the characters seem to have been placed there to advance you through the game rather than adding to the authenticity of Dunwall. Only a small amount of their dialogue is idle pvssyr and, frankly, isn't very well-written.

One last thing about my personal experience with playing the game non-lethally (which I prefer whenever possible in a game). In Thief, you were organically motivated to stick to non-lethal methods because the guards felt like real people as opposed to video game sprites. Even though there is no long-lasting consequence for killing guards in Thief, it stills fills me with guilt whenever accidentally do because I felt like I had killed a real person than a mere bunch of pixels. In Dishonored, almost every guard just seems to be a two-dimensional emotionless psychopath (according to the heart anyway) with the consequences for playing lethally being reduced to mechanical ones (e.g. worse ending). When I did try playing Dishonored more brutally (not my preferred style of play), I didn't feel that same guilt as killing guards in Thief, I felt like I was just erasing pixels from the screen.

That's just my two cents anyway. I still like Dishonored a lot, but the writing really does undermine the effort of the developers, IMHO.

I think I maybe referred to Thief a bit too much. Dishonored is more akin to Deus Ex than Thief, but I haven't really played enough of Deus Ex 1 to draw any good comparisons.

» Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:14 am

Ah, I remember that thread. I just was thinking abot more specific things.

What I definitely agree with is that The Heart's coments paint everybody in dark colors too much. Well, The Heart may be biased or affected by the Void, but still you end up in a city where everybody is a villain. Maybe that was done for justifying high chaos, but it felt too theatrical.

And that dialogue of two Overseers surely felt unnatural. To think of it the non-lethat ways to deal with Campbell, Pendletons and Durrows all felt contrived. I often thought during my first playthrough that I'd better have several lethal ways, more cruel and less cruel, than things that come out of nowhere, like that Slackjaw's offer. Actually non-lethal ways of eleminating a person are not very logical in general.

Dunwall has a certain feeling of irreality to it. But I believe this is at least partly intentional - they specifiaclly designed the misty lightning. Also the plot has to have more holes, becuse of variability. At the moment I'm fine with most flaws of the plot, cause in the end all the parts make for a very good game. I'm not sure if making some aspect of it better won't make the magic disappear. Except that thing with Billie, that's not good.

Also I've been thinking, and it occured to me, that, probably, we're comparing Dishonored with Thief more not only because of the fantasy setting. In DE:HR lethal and non-lethal route were predesigned and clearly visible form the start, in the original DE, as far as I remember, not every location supportes every playstyle. I suppose that Dishonored is a mixture of influences from both Thief and Dishonored, since its levels feel much more organic, like that of Thief, but it supports differnet approaches and character progression, like DE.