LFH Resolving Nav Mesh issues : V

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:32 am

Spoiler

PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 216 Edge 1 and Triangle 322 Edge 2 should be linked, but they are not.
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 322 Edge 2 and Triangle 216 Edge 1 should be linked, but they are not.
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 322 has a link to Triangle 216, but Triangle 216 doesn't have the matching link
MASTERFILE: NavMesh: Navmesh (000E6C86) in Cell NavMesh (000E6C86) with 406 Triangles in Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F) has warnings that need to be fixed
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 216 Edge 1 and Triangle 322 Edge 2 should be linked, but they are not.
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 322 Edge 2 and Triangle 216 Edge 1 should be linked, but they are not.
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 322 has a link to Triangle 216, but Triangle 216 doesn't have the matching link
MASTERFILE: NavMesh: Navmesh (000E6C86) in Cell NavMesh (000E6C86) with 406 Triangles in Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F) has warnings that need to be fixed
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 216 Edge 1 and Triangle 322 Edge 2 should be linked, but they are not.
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 322 Edge 2 and Triangle 216 Edge 1 should be linked, but they are not.
PATHFINDING: Navmesh 000e6c86 Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F), Triangle 322 has a link to Triangle 216, but Triangle 216 doesn't have the matching link
MASTERFILE: NavMesh: Navmesh (000E6C86) in Cell NavMesh (000E6C86) with 406 Triangles in Cell 'WhiterunWindDistrict03' (0001A275) (6, -1) in WorldSpace 'WhiterunWorld' (0001A26F) has warnings that need to be fixed

There doesn't seem to be a way to go to triangle 322, or 216. Besides painfully hunting for the triangles, how do I find them so I can attempt to resolve these issues?

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:37 pm

In the navmesh menu at the top, use "Select Triangle By Index" while you have navmesh mode on. Then click on "check navmesh". A little box will then tell you how many problem triangles you've got and asks if you want to delete them. Click No. Then use the "find next" button in the Select Triangle By Index window to cycle through them

- Hypno

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:17 pm

With your navmesh showing in the render window, hit Ctrl-F and it brings up the check navmesh dialogue box that says Select Triangle at the top. If you hit Check Navmesh it should give you one of those errors. Say no to delete the tri and use the Go To button to go to the tri. Next Warning will step you to the next bad tri. You have to hit Check Navmesh again between each one.

What he said. I use Ctrl-F4 to bring it up, but you can use Check Navmesh from the menu just as well.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:15 pm

I had chosen Finalize to get those errors. I clicked yes to all, but I didn't click yes to delete the triangles. So I'm wondering, since I clicked yes to all am I going to see what the two of you are talking about? I say this because CTRL-F and ALT-F4 don't bring up anything at all for me, but I can click the appropriate button on the toolbar as noted in the http://www.creationkit.com/Navmesh_Cheat_Sheet.

Going to the NavMesh menu option I did see Select Triangle by index. There wasn't any auto option I saw here either. I had the text file open so I entered "000DCCC1" and 216 and then clicked the check button in the "Select Triangle" window. That brings up the warning and then I can click next warning. Now I am zoomed into the two triangles and I see the edge that needs to be fixed.

When I select at least two vertices and I press Q that will join the vertices. http://www.creationkit.com/Bethesda_Tutorial_Navmesh does not explain how to join or link the edges. Do I select the edge, or do I select the two triangles to link the edges?

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:19 am

The tutorial implies that deleting the triangle and recreating it is the way to fix the error that the edges are not linked properly. When I delete the triangle then a new triangle has an edge that is no longer linked to another triangle. So do I have to keep removing them and creating them until all the errors go away? There is no way to just specify the edges of the triangles?

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:03 am

From your description, it sounds like you have created two tris next to each other without connected their adjacent edges, What you want to do is to delete one of the tris, then combine the remaining adjacent vertices using Q - select the two adjacent vertices and hit Q and they combine in the location of the first one selected. That should leave you with a triangular gap that you can fill by selecting one edge of the gap and double clicking on any other edge in the gap. That way you get a contiguous mesh. If you just try to connect two edges, it will generate additional tris between the edges and give you more errors.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:30 am

If Cntrl-F isn't bringing up the check navmesh window, you either don't have the navmesh showing or do not have the render window active.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:34 pm

Let me try that instead. Thanks for the suggestion.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:16 am

Sure bud, I hope it helps. Navmesh takes a little practice.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:31 am

Sure bud, I hope it helps. Navmesh takes a little practice.

Navmesh is %""#% ... erm fun

Seriously though, once you get the hang of it, it starts to flow more easy

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:44 am

I think that fixed it but I fiddled around too much experimenting that I am gonna use Snip to remove all the navmesh entries. I use the dev-version that the team of volunteers has been updating, which has been seriously upgraded. Still needs work like TES5Edit but it's getting there. Let me see if I can fix the navmesh around the new objects and fix any errors so the CK finally quits complaining.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:41 pm

Nooooooo

Snip is known to corrupts esp's. I don't think any of the new tools are ready or released yet.

- Hypno

EDIT: I got to the word "snip" in your post and went into auto post mode. Didn't read the whole thing lol

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:44 am

Nooooooo

Snip is known to corrupts esp's. I don't think any of the new tools are ready or released yet.

- Hypno

Yes I know that, I head the project to update TESVSnip and TES5Edit both. Although, I don't do any of the programming for Snip, just TES5Edit. TES5Edit is in closed beta at the moment. Both the forum and Google Code sites are in my sig.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:50 pm

Yeh I edited my post after actually reading yours. Also I browse these forums on my phone while at work so no sigs.

Ignore me....it's early

- Hypno

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Yeh I edited my post after actually reading yours. Also I browse these forums on my phone while at work so no sigs.

Ignore me....it's early :tongue:

- Hypno

That happens a lot actually, I'm used to it. I use it since I know what has been updated and changed. I should go to bed but I want to fix the navmesh and see if I end up with errors or not.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:44 am

Ok that finally worked. Now one last thing to finish the navmesh properly. I want some of the mesh to go away but that ugly green bar is there, how can I alter the navmesh so it's not under the chest and the tanning rack without causing other errors.

With Objects

Spoiler

[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img4/4817/navmesh02.jpg[/img]

Without Objects

Spoiler

[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img38/1004/navmesh01.jpg[/img]

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:11 pm

[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img690/7145/editseaofgreen.jpg[/IMG]
Ahh a sea of green...

Although my attempts to remove the navmesh under the last chest and tanning rack are not working.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:34 am

Those green bars are there to show you when two navmesh's from adjacent cells link to each other properly

To allow for individual objects, you could place a collision box around it, then change the primitive type to "L_NAVCUT". Actors ignore any navmesh that these primitives are placed on top of. I'm not too sure how much strain they put in the system so I'm not sure if you should use them everywhere tho

- Hypno

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:54 am

In Navmesh terms that is a beautiful green bar that means NPCs will cross over between those cells at that point. One of the goals of exterior navmeshing is to create those in as many places around the cell border as possible. Editing along borders is tricky since the border acts like a wall that you can't move the mesh over. In order to make that thick green connection line appear, you have to align the vertexes of the two adjacent cell meshes and finalize. With that said, the mesh on the other side of the border looks to be insignificant from your screenshot. You should be able to remove it and remove the mesh under your objects as well without causing any issues. I am puzzled by your comment that you can't remove it. You should be able to select any tri or vertex and hit delete.

The mesh on the other side looks like it could be an island. If it is, you might want to join it to some other mesh in that cell before you remove it so you are not deleting an island of the vanilla mesh. Whenever you do that, you will get an error message about missing navbounds and needing to refinalize the cell navmesh that never seems to go away. It seems harmless but is sort of irritating.

After spending hours and hours navmeshing, I actually find it sort of relaxing to do. Actually fun in a way. Maybe I am sick. One note though. If you are creating a mod for public release, you may run into issues with navmesh in such a popular area. If any other mod in the load order also modifies the navmesh in your cell (or in an adjacent cell and either of you finalizes), there will be conflicts over the navmesh.

There is quite a debate over the use of Snip that I refuse to take part in as using Snip never caused me issues. TESVGecko is in open beta and is working fairly well so far.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:56 pm

After spending hours and hours navmeshing, I actually find it sort of relaxing to do. Actually fun in a way. Maybe I am sick.

Haha, i think I fall under that category as well mate!

It's kind of like how some monks meditate by focusing their bodies on a simple, repetitive task which then allows their minds to wander

- Hypno

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:10 am

In Navmesh terms that is a beautiful green bar that means NPCs will cross over between those cells at that point. One of the goals of exterior navmeshing is to create those in as many places around the cell border as possible. Editing along borders is tricky since the border acts like a wall that you can't move the mesh over. In order to make that thick green connection line appear, you have to align the vertexes of the two adjacent cell meshes and finalize. With that said, the mesh on the other side of the border looks to be insignificant from your screenshot. You should be able to remove it and remove the mesh under your objects as well without causing any issues. I am puzzled by your comment that you can't remove it. You should be able to select any tri or vertex and hit delete.

I can delete it but when I do then I get errors about nav mesh bound missing. I'll try it again tomorrow or something.

» Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:10 pm

Yes - that is the error you will get if you delete an entire island of vanilla mesh. As far as I can tell, it is irritating but harmless. You can avoid that by joining the island to another part of the mesh in that cell so it is no longer an island and then just delete the unwanted tris from that mesh. That seems to work. When it gets tough to do is out in a rough wilderness cell where you want to remesh the whole cell and it has several dozen islands in it. I have one of those and I haven't had the energy to go in and do it right. I just deleted the mesh from the entire cell, moved the mountain and regenerated new mesh by recast. One of these days, I am going to go back and do it right. It works for now. Maybe better than vanilla, but I get that irritating error everytime I load the landsape patch esp.