My Little Pony:Needs Of The Many (philosophy question) : Othor Games

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:23 pm

well, because if you could gain the upper hand for your own survival and they couldn't, they're of lesser physical or mental ability.

Please could you explain more fully the scenario you envisage?

Eh. Nothing in particular. How about.. guy walks up to other guy with gun. Plans to shoot. That work? Could've easily been me the guy walked up to.

and Modus: If a "paradise" afterlife does exist, wouldn't it make sense for people who want the option to rest eternally to have that option? Let's not really get into religion, though. This isn't an argument, or a debate, or anything. Just a what if. Curiosity.

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:05 am

It's just as well I have no control over the world, because it would have a population of 500,000 when I'd finished sorting the wheat from the chaff.

What would happen to what you consider the 'chaff'?

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:21 pm

Hmmm, not believing in an afterlife seems very depressing (not necessarily talking about sitting on clouds and playing harps), but it impossible for me to comprehend ceasing to exist completely.

On the contrary, I find it freeing. I would be trapped in permanent existential boredom if i had
immortality.

The first 1000 years, fine. then 10,000, then 1,000,000 then 100,000,000,000 and you've still got infinity left.

I thought an eternal afterlife would be pretty cool, too. Until I realised the full extent of infinity.

» Tue May 15, 2012 12:52 am

Hmmm, not believing in an afterlife seems very depressing (not necessarily talking about sitting on clouds and playing harps), but it impossible for me to comprehend ceasing to exist completely.

I have trouble with that too. But as far as a religious afterlife would be, for me, Heaven is Hell, in a figurative manner.

If I remember correctly, the brain is triggered by electric impulses. When you die, these electric impulses, after some time, fade. If assumed I am correct, dying could be compared to a light slowly growing dim. What happens then, who knows...

» Tue May 15, 2012 2:12 am

What would happen to what you consider the 'chaff'?

Those who are incapable of rational thought or compassion to any significant degree. Particularly those who take pride in ignorance.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:05 pm

Those who are incapable of rational thought or compassion to any significant degree. Particularly those who take pride in ignorance.

500,000 is a very pessimistic number. http://xkcd.com/610/

» Tue May 15, 2012 6:21 am

On the contrary, I find it freeing. I would be trapped in permanent existential boredom if i had
immortality.

The first 1000 years, fine. then 10,000, then 1,000,000 then 100,000,000,000 and you've still got infinity left.

I thought an eternal afterlife would be pretty cool, too. Until I realised the full extent of infinity.

Not necessarily talking about a continuous infinity here, but cycles; say you're currently in a cycle but don't know it. Some phases would be longer some shorter, but you are unaware you are immortal (this is not reincarnation as you are not necessarily reborn in this world or even as the same sort of being). On the other hand one continuous existence would have it's advantages; for example you would eventually become extremely intelligent, if you had forever to develop your thoughts (not really talking about science here, just philosophical thought).

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:55 pm

To give a proper sense of scale, a googolplex is a number so big, that it would be impossible to write down without simplification (ie, 1000 instead of 10 to the power of 3) because to store the number on any medium would require more physical space than there is in the known universe. Think about that.

And that is nothing at all compared to infinity.

That sounds agonising to me. How would one possibly enjoy that?

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:05 pm

Those who are incapable of rational thought or compassion to any significant degree. Particularly those who take pride in ignorance.

I have met VERY VERY few people who fit this description but they are extremely hate-able. Then again it depends on what we mean by "significant degree".

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:54 pm

How negative a view of the world everyone has.

People and society are still evolving and improving in small and large steps and jumps. How would you feel about the world if you happened to be a non white non male living in the 1930s. When is the last time that half the population of your town died of the plague?

People have come a long way in the evolution of morality, just look at what people in the old testament thought was a moral choice ( all that killing the first born babies of Egypt and the whole lots daughters thing).

It is all of our jobs to make the world a better place for all future generations and not just ourselves.

» Mon May 14, 2012 8:55 pm

Not necessarily talking about a continuous infinity here, but cycles; say you're currently in a cycle but don't know it. Some phases would be longer some shorter, but you are unaware you are immortal (this is not reincarnation as you are not necessarily reborn in this world or even as the same sort of being). On the other hand one continuous existence would have it's advantages; for example you would eventually become extremely intelligent, if you had forever to develop your thoughts (not really talking about science here, just philosophical thought).

That would be interesting, although I can't say I'd choose it if I had the opportunity.

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:03 pm

How negative a view of the world everyone has.

People and society are still evolving and improving in small and large steps and jumps. How would you feel about the world if you happened to be a non white non male living in the 1930s. When is the last time that half the population of your town died of the plague?

People have come a long way in the evolution of morality, just look at what people in the old testament thought was a moral choice ( all that killing the first born babies of Egypt and the whole lots daughters thing).

It is all of our jobs to make the world a better place for all future generations and not just ourselves.

When a majority of the world's population has their moral code based off the old testament, it's hard to not despair.

» Tue May 15, 2012 12:42 am

flip a coin on it

or let them battle it out in a game of sf

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:12 pm

How negative a view of the world everyone has.

People and society are still evolving and improving in small and large steps and jumps. How would you feel about the world if you happened to be a non white non male living in the 1930s. When is the last time that half the population of your town died of the plague?

People have come a long way in the evolution of morality, just look at what people in the old testament thought was a moral choice ( all that killing the first born babies of Egypt and the whole lots daughters thing).

It is all of our jobs to make the world a better place for all future generations and not just ourselves.

I do not think we have evolved morally so much though I will not discuss this as it goes against forum rules. But I can and will say this; consider the samurai of feudal Japan (this is just an example); they are far morally superior to most of us today.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:13 pm

When a majority of the world's population has their moral code based off the old testament, it's hard to not despair.

I have to agree on that.

We are also still operating from what I think is called the lower brain, meaning that... well, "see there's a bird, let's kill it".

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:51 pm

When a majority of the world's population has their moral code based off the old testament, it's hard to not despair.

People of faith are changing, too. I know many devout Christians who believe in evolution. The world is evolving.

consider the samurai of feudal Japan (this is just an example); they are far morally superior to most of us today.

The samurai were a small sect in one nation. And even then, there was moral variation between them. There are groups today that follow codes just as honorable as the Samurai.

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:49 pm

When a majority of the world's population has their moral code based off the old testament, it's hard to not despair.

Lol I agree, and it's not even religious or anything; that piece of text has some disturbing s**t! Some parts would make quite decent metal lyrics. :tongue:

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:23 pm

What about a religion formulated to advance humanity? Entirely engineered of course, yet believable and yet enriching. Good does come of religion, but it is largely outweighed by other negative societal effects.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:29 pm

The samurai were a small sect in one nation. And even then, there was moral variation between them. There are groups today that follow codes just as honorable as the Samurai.

I personally respect any sane person who is not afraid to die at any given moment.

» Tue May 15, 2012 5:51 am

Lol I agree, and it's not even religious or anything; that piece of text has some disturbing s**t! Some parts would make quite decent metal lyrics. :tongue:

The more terrible thing about it, is: People have killed each other because of it, in great numbers over several centuries. And still happens to this day.

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:25 pm

What about a religion formulated to advance humanity? Entirely engineered of course, yet believable and yet enriching. Good does come of religion, but it is largely outweighed by other negative societal effects.

Hey, who knows what the main religions will be 100 years from now.

The more terrible thing about it, is: People have killed each other because of it, in great numbers over several centuries. And still happens to this day.

People kill each other over things like skin color and clothing. It's just a base, violent human nature.

I'm going to leave the conversation now. Probably not helping anything.

» Tue May 15, 2012 4:09 am

What about a religion formulated to advance humanity? Entirely engineered of course, yet believable and yet enriching. Good does come of religion, but it is largely outweighed by other negative societal effects.

Hmmm I don't want to the thread closed as it's a very interesting conversation (though I guess it's okay long as we don't flame). What I want to say is that there ARE aspects of Christianity which are good and practiced by sects such as Franciscan Friars (e.g. selflessness, humility, kindness, generosity), now if there was a way to separate this from the WH40K-stlye "kill-the-heretic!" aspect....

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:24 pm

although arguably extreme, the jainists I have to commend.

They have brushes they sweep the ground in front of them with, to prevent insects from being trodden on. The brush is so fine it causes no damage at all.

other mainstream beliefs seem quite primitive by comparison.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:52 pm

I heard Buddhists also do this. Also a very "advanced" morality in it's own way IMO.

» Tue May 15, 2012 4:51 am

The way I understand it, the most popular beliefs reinforce our barbaric nature whereas other less popular beliefs attempt to transcend it.