Hey!

To Explain where I'm coming from:

One of the things that plays a big roll in making games like this fun for an extended period of time, at least for some of us, is the idea of trying to beat the system. The feeling of having outsmarted the developers by finding loop-holes or exploits within their game. It could be a lot of different things, anything from taking advantage of bugs to things the developers have underestimated or things they've just completely missed. Personally I don't like taking advantage of a games bugs and errors that have to do with coding or scripting or things that are just overpowered. But what I really, really enjoy, especially in an open-world such as this, is exploring, or more accurately, to explore the areas i'm not intended to explore, or that at least appear that way. Anyone who's spent more than half a minute in a mountain range will have realized that "mountain climbing" is a breeze in this game. The object-collissions are very generous and allow us, if we try hard enough, to reach places that might seem like they aren't intended to be reached. Some of the highest mountain tops, or the top of certain castles and buildings and so on. I think this sort of "exploiting", eventhough the mountain climbing seems so easy and obvious that it might be intentional, is very enjoyable for a lot of people, and I find that, for me, that has a lot to do with the hope that some level-designer, somewhere, has left a treat for me "up there". Now there might be something like that somewhere in Skyrim, that I just haven't found yet, but I feel that in a game of this scale, if you would have added things like that, it would make it an absolute masterpiece. It could be anything from a note with a related joke on it, to an epic item, to a secret house with a unique look, or an easter egg or anything, really. What im trying to say is that; when you make a game like this, which, in and of itself, is epic enough, it's all great fun to complete a pre-written storyline and something that has been pre-conceived by a developer, because you do it so well. But at the same time, one of the main things I want from an open-world game like this, is to be rewarded for my creativity and my curiosity even when I'm sort of "breaking the law". It's hard to explain exactly what I mean, but I think a lot of people can already relate to this.

To use an example:

I just tried to enter "Mzulft", which is a dungeon in the far east, but I couldn't because you need a key and the lock cannot be picked. I noticed that the building went high up into the mountains, and usually a lot of the castles and dungeons in Skyrim will have an exit/entrance higher up into the mountain side, places you're not supposed to get to unless you go through the dungeon. I also noticed that there was no path to get up there, but I figured that there's probably going to be an entrance up there and I bet it doesn't need a key. So I spend about 10-20 minutes trying to find my way up and finally I get up to a plateau and what do you know, there's an entrance there. It might seem like a silly thing, but the sense of accomplishment from that was great, "I outsmarted them". It feels good and it makes me like the game all the more. BUT, then I walk over to the door and find that it also requires a key, and it just ruins my whole day. Because I was creative and curious and I worked hard, but I was not rewarded for it. I didn't even stop there, I noticed that there was a high tower there, that went straight up and I couldn't see the roof. And I remembered that a lot of castles/dungeons also have a little hatch on the roof that typically leads to a chest or something. Now it seemed impossible to get up there because the mountain-side was so steep and the castle was flat walled, but after another 10 minutes I managed to get on top of it. To my dismay there was no hatch there.

Now this is not about me not getting into "Mzulft", I could have just googled whatever quest was related to it, or how to get the key and I would have gotten in. This is about rewarding a player for his "out of the box- thinking". I completely understand that you want players to mainly enjoy the content you've designed for them, but if you, in addition to that, rewarded players for "beating you" so to speak, it would just top it off. You could have just left that door open, or you could just put an epic sword in a rock on top of the highest mountain that nobody "should" be able to get to, just in case someone was to, somehow, make their way up there. Or just have a note that says "Dude come on... you know you're not supposed to be up here". Just some form of recognition because, at least to me, there's just nothing that's more rewarding for me as a player, than "to have the developers recognize my genius", so to speak, hehe. I'm not talking about making things tailored towards that type of game-play, that would ruin the fun if I found out that you had "allowed" this, i'm just talking about recognizing where someone might be tempted to travel and have a little treat for him, just in case.

Now I know that it's probably not going to happen, and I understand it. Why spend extra time, and therefor money, working on something that only a very small percentage of the consumers are going to care about. I respect that. But I just wanted to say it none-the-less. As a games-design student, this is at least something I aim to achieve and implement into potential games of this kind.

Hopefully some of you guys understand what it is om trying to say, or feel the same way.

And hey, maybe there are a few little "treats" that I just havent found yet, but I'll be sure to keep looking.

Peace

I get what you're saying
but I'd say no, don't do it
ofcourse 1 or 2 eastereggs out of the way somewhere couldn't hurt
but this is immersion breaking

personally I don't like any of this since it doesn't make any sense
you're trying to abuse game rules and not in game logic which to me feels like cheating
IMO they should avoid this sort of stuff wherever they can which is what they seem to be doing

i get what mean completely. i wouldn't necessarily say it would make it more epic though.

I don't think you completely get what I am saying, or maybe I just didn't say it clearly enough, which is an equally likely option.

These sorts of "rewards" would only be accessible for people who actually sought them out, in a sense. I'm not talking about accidentaly stumbling upon something, but putting things of interest where no-one is, by design, intended to go. And of course, you don't want to advertize this sort of thing. The point is that a big thing about the feeling of "epic", at least for a lot of people, is the idea that you did something big, or something that few others have done. Now in Skyrim, playing the quests and storylines etc is a lot of fun, because I might have that sense of accomplishment etc, but as soon as I talk to a friend or even just do a google search, and find out that someone else has done the exact same thing and achieved the same thing.. The feeling of "epic" is gone, because what I've achieved is in no way special, everyone else has always done it. Now we could enter into a discussion of what to expect from a video game and what expectations are realistic etc, but I'm just saying.. I think a lot of people would see it as a really cool touch that, in all honesty, doesn't seem like a lot of extra work.

Maybe I'm using the word "epic" wrong.

What I mean is, the sense of accomplishment, the degree of "cool" I feel by achieving something like that, and being rewarded for it.

Is what im saying

The problem is that it could wreck the quest and have a knock-on effect that ruins other quests. It's not worth the effort.

Well that's for me to decide, isnt it? Some might consider this trolling, but.. I mean if I knowingly try to "outsmart the game", the fact that that would ruin a quest or have a knock-on effect is just a reward?, isnt it? I want to play the game, not have the game play me by dictating what to do. But Skyrim doesnt do that in the same way that Metal Gear or Final fantasy does, which are linear.. But the world has a huge set of scripted content for me to enjoy, from which I can choose whether to play or not, but it still dictates how I should play, it just allows me to choose from a larger variety of sub-catagories. And of course, that's it's intention, that's the purpose, it is in fact not a real world, but a pre-conceived, artifically mastered one. But still.. Part of the fun is finding it's limitations and then trying to break those limits. One could argue that I'm playing the game wrong, but you know, as long as I pay for the game I can play it the way I want to. And im not saying that bethesda should have thought of this because "some people like to play it this way".. im just saying that it could be a nice touch, from my point of view.. And that's really all this is.. Im just looking for equally minded people.. It's a large part of what we do as human beings..


Edit: Rewrite