I have a new house that mostly works now. I don't have an exterior with interior cells, instead it's all in worldspace. There are 2 stories, and a staircase that allows me to go from first to second floor.

The second floor has a water feature. I managed to get working water the right size and everything, but it sort of keeps going down to the second floor. So, I can't see the water from the first floor, but if I walk under the water part I start swimming (and drowning). Is there a way to contain water better - especially depth? As a side note there appears to be a unique feature where if you start swimming in the sky, you can pretty much keep flying all over the wastelands.

Also, I can't seem to find how to add to the existing navmesh. There is a delete option, but I'm not seeing the 'add new line' or 'face' option. Is this there and I'm just not seeing it? Can I create a navmesh on top of another (first floor, up stairs, and second floor). There is a navmesh going up stairs at Tabitha's place on Black mountain, and I'm pretty sure there's a little bit of overlap between ground floor and balcony, so it doesn't seem like it would crash everything if I could figure out how to make it.

Thanks.

I feel that I should stop you right here. It will definitely not be possible to have two different navmeshes for the same x,y point in one worldspace. All buildings that do this are interiors, with each level stored as a separate interior. The navmesh applies to the interior. I suppose, if your first and second floors had the exact same layout, you could get by with one, but that would be a special case.


Have you seen the http://geck.gamesas.com/index.php/gamesas_Tutorial_Navmesh? That is where I learned. It is not so obvious, but I was able to work it out using the tutorial. One trick is that the navmesh points are in 3D, and drawn in perspective view, so it is hard to put a new point at the exact spot you expect. It's easy enough to drag them a little afterwards.

OP: I think for ease of understanding, since i can tell you are not from the US, if you use "Top floor and bottom floor". Here in the US we lable floors starting with the first floor at ground level and numbering up. I say this because I had to re-read your post to understand.



I have to disagree with you. There were countless instances in Fallout 3 with the NavMesh being over another. While they have the same X,Y, they do not have the same Z, which is the very important difference. I cant say any for NV because I never thought of such a thing so cant think of any instances off hand.

This is an interesting point. The OP mentions Tabitha's radio station. Looking in NV geck, I see it has two separate interiors, one called "BlackMountainRadio" and one called "BlackMountainRadio2". Somehow in game these are made to show as a single unit in the pipboy map. But as far as I can tell, geck considers them two separate interiors and they have two separate navmeshes.

Can you find a specific example in FO3 or (preferably) FNV geck where there is a single interior or worldspace, with two navmeshes at the same x,y point? I am not an expert in editing navmeshes, but the techniques taught by the tutorial would be completely useless if there were two navmeshes to edit at the same time.

Ill see what I can dig up. This can be useful information for everyone and the wiki.


Not the greatest example, but NV interiors are a PITA to navigate with the room portals bug.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/staplehead78/Fallout/Untitled.png


And just for clarification, you are refering to 2 sections of a navmesh with the same X,Y or 2 sections of completely different of navmesh with the same X,Y?

Sure there are a lot of examples with such navmeshes. All outdoor walkable destroyed buildings are made this way (for example RefId 00151CF5 in NV). It's a bit tricky to make them (I use them a lot in my open villa which has a new building mesh for FNNCQ2) but they work perfectly in game.

OK, thanks for the specific examples which show that you and Echonite are correct. I would hate to edit these navmeshes. Apart from the basic navmesh tutorial I referenced, is there any more documentation on navmesh editing which would help for these cases? For example, is there a way to make the walls/ceilings invisible when doing navmesh editing? If I am editing the navmesh you showed, in overhead view, is there a way to operate on the lower floor with the upper floor navmesh "peeled back"? If I change the heightmap for an exterior, some navmesh points may no longer lie on the ground in the Z plane; does this matter? Are there any working automatic tools in geck which can fill in a somewhat irregular interior, or is manual the only technique?

The OP has created a two story building in worldspace and has not edited navmeshes before. Do you recommend the OP to start with two overlapping navmeshes in worldspace, or instead to create their first building as two interiors?

That would probably be why you don't see it too often with interiors, because its easier to work with each floor on its own.

@davidlallen
As I wrote it's tricky and there is no automatic way. It is a matter of finding the correct zoom level so you can see and navmesh the lower parts of a open two story building. Always begin at the bottom the upper floor is then easy to make. Btw. Navmesh triangles can be hidden in the editor (I don't know the key combination in the moment but it is in the shortcut list) which helps a lot if you have complicated situations.

Thank you for your help. I think I have the navmesh part figured out. I'm pretty good at it now. There are a couple of other tutorials that helped clarify how to add new parts to a mesh (keep edges and vertices on and right click). Other than that it seems to mostly be patience and rotating the camera view. My space now has a single navmesh that overlaps itself, so 2 planes with the same x,y but different z. I just added on to the existing terrain navmesh and moved it up along the stair and covered the second floor. I think this is one of many reasons interiors are treated separately. For what it's worth I'm right in the middle of the US, I just talk funny

Is there anything that would explain how to contain water within a given space? I can't find much information from the geck wiki about placeable water. I copied one of the existing water meshes and edited the size with 3ds to control the x-y, but I don't see how I can tell where the z depth is supposed to be. I assumed it would stop when it hit a solid, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In game I can't think of anywhere where you walk under water without entering a different interior space.

I am from Austria (Europe, no Kangaroos only Lipizaner ) so don't wonder if my english is horrible.

Sorry can't help with placeable water I didn't needed it yet.