I'm sad,

I'm really sad

and really disappointed.

Ok seriously, this is getting on a lot of people's nerves. I really wonder what these people are doing over at AMD ATI. They need 3 preview drivers in order to get ONE final 11.10 driver and it still dont work.
Do they really take us, consumers, seriously??????

Have they ever heard about beta testing before releasing something????


The game itself, when you get it to work, is rock solid kick@ss fps. It's good and it's awesome, i never saw something like it in an fps, the animations are drop dead gorgeous and some levels are ridiculously good. (the prison is my favorite)
A lot of credit that should go to id is being taken away from them. Bad pc feedback means a bad image for the future.
That alone deserves some serious action. (reorganisation, layoffs, whatever)


Damnit with the tweaks me and some other friends on here produced, id should give us a lifetime beta testing privilege for their software, honestly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We basically fixed the whole thing on our own!!!!
On 11.9 everything works fine after doing my tweaks as discussed in the forum, on the 11.10 we are back to the crappy situation.

So all i'm gonna do is use driversweeper and revert to 11.9 and in the end i'm definitely gonna revert back to Nvidia because this is the last time i bought an ati product.
I suffered months from the GSOD, which was a voltage problem and now it seems AMD cannot program some solid stable drivers.

If i was them i would definitely start firing some of the team because this is some worthless time they have been wasting on our time, our feedback, and our money!

It's such a shame. In the end, who is suffering from this? Well the answer is easy: ALL OF US: the consumers, the gfx card companies, and of course id, bethesda and zenimax. They released it way too early.

I start to feel there's a bigger chance the game is gonna work after taking out the ati card, flushing it through the toilet, draining it out, wiping it off and putting it back in the pc than installing a new ati driver, seriously!

We should stand up and make the forum explode with our posts to give a message because this is getting totally ridiculous.

We basically fixed all the problems ourselves there is no feedback at all.

I mean cr*p i wanna buy skyrim but what should we do? Bug the bugs out for a second time before they give us feedback or solid drivers??????

We fix the fixes and the fixes still need new fixes to be fixed, that's what rage was mainly all about so far!!

This is pretty sad and I also tend to think more of an Intel/Nvidia system as a better choice for the future. AMD messed this up pretty badly.

The game is running great for me with the final 11.10 drivers.

Not one issue.....

Core2 Duo @2.8
4 gigs ram
HD 6870 1 gig
X-FI Titanium PCI-e audio

bit rude to be dissing the amd 11.10 drivers,they have actually improved my performances greatly on every game i fired up.

the only game that they dont help is RAGE,but thats because its the game thats bolloxed,
you cant blame AMD for not being included in the testing phase [if there was one]

Sigh. Must I really post this quote again?


There was a testing phase, AMD were included, id took on advice from them in good faith, with the specific intention of getting the best result possible for AMD users, and AMD messed up. AMD have now messed up two driver releases over a period of a single month. Drop your AMD-love because it's based on a false premise and not worth it.

what i have gotten from all of this since launch is that...to them our sixty dollars is a laughing matter

after all the ati/amd problems on multiple setups you STILL want to believe they were involved AND there was any testing done ?
so your saying ID deliberatley released knowing from testing that the game would make so many people miserable ?

i`ll say it again just to pith you off

every other game works fine,except this one,and you try and blame the drivers that work fine with every other game,the only conclusion i can come to is blind ignorant sychophantic behaviour.

Aaaah, do continue. I'm marking them off you know.


And must I really dig up those posts from the AMD forums again? The posts about all the other games and programs that their drivers cause havoc with? And the bit where AMD themselves admitted it was their driver? It would be unfortunate if I had to do that again. "It works with everything else" is not only missing the point; it's demonstrably untrue.

lol seriusly Rage is the only game that is giving me problems wiht my AMD cards, and worst is that ppl keep defending ID when they said that pc wasnt eben a good plataform to release the game. THEY JUST PORT IT. Seriusly stop blaming AMD and just fix the stupid game, is amazing how this game is the worst game i seen in the past 3 years and is only this bad bc the thecnical issues

I kinda agree with the fact that id shouldnt be backed up in this.
In my opinion it's an AMD/ATI issue but basically id took off their pants for the big companies and gave a green light for a way too early pc release,
so part of the blame should go to them too.

I just read the shocking fact in this forum that some honest retail sellers are refusing to sell the game any longer to unknowing buyers, untill the game is fixed.

That means something.

+1

Next GPU in my system will be an Nvidia I'm not going through this stress again.

Hi everybody,

I would like to say to other people on this forum. Check what Mr Jimmy shelter says about AMD and ATI on almost each topic that complains about RAGE. He ALWAYS puts the blame on AMD and ATI. Maybe he is right but I wonder who he really is; is he paid by NVIDIA, ID SOFTWARE or BETHESDA to discredit AMD or ATI? Check the digfferent topics and you'll see what I'm telling you. He never says that this game is buggy to a point that is unbelievable. I'm not going to tell you what I've done to make it work... for about 10 minutes. : blurry textures, chopping, freezes, no saves,....Everybod even Nvidia owners complain ( no SLI for example) . I had Nvidia cards for years and wih my last 260 Cards I had so many probs I decided to buy 5870 ATI cards in crossfire. I admit there are some problems and maybe the whole graphics quality is a bit below Nvidia graphics. But as a whole everything runs well and BSODs are rare.
So Mr Shelter what's your problem? are you a kind of NVIDIAOlic or what? What is your system and tell us you have never had ANY problems with RAGE?
Thanks for your reply.

You're wrong on all counts.

I have however done a lot of 3D programming in my time, using both OpenGL and Direct3D. I have over 10 years experience at this, and I know that AMD (and ATI before them) hardware is a constant source of trouble. I know that simple stuff that should work, and that does work everywhere else, consistently causes trouble on AMD/ATI hardware. If you're really interested, I can even provide sample programs - that you can benchmark yourself - that demonstrate this.

I know that ATI (as they were then) failed to implement entry points for GL_ARB_point_parameters back in the early 2000s. I know that they failed to support blend squaring despite the fact that it was a requirement of the GL_VERSION they were claiming. I know that texture uploads on AMD hardware are up to 6 times slower than on NVIDIA and 1.5 slower than Intel. Again, I can provide a test program that demonstrates this.

It's also a fact that AMD have - in the past month - twice screwed up a driver release. It's also a fact that AMD themselves - in the release notes for their last driver - have admitted that their driver has problems. No matter how pro-AMD you might be, you cannot ignore these facts. I contend that AMD supporters are displaying some fairly large measure of irrationality here, and I'm taking the job of pointing this out on myself, with no outside influences. Where things in Rage do annoy me I have been forthcoming about pointing them out too (since you've checked out my posting history you should know that) and I will continue to do so.

My system is in my sig and I have never had problems with Rage. I'll admit to some texture pop-in, but no blue textures, no random crashes, no not being able to get past the intro video, no stalls every few seconds, no 1 FPS slowdowns, none of that. Rage works fine on my system; these problems do not happen.

I know that there are other people who have the exact same system as I do with the exception of the video card. I know that Rage works for me but doesn't work for them. What's different? The video card. So what's the most likely cause? You answer that one.

Hello Jimmy Shelter,

I' don't want to argue with you . You are A SPECIALIST as I can see it. Believe me I am not an ATI fan. All my previous cards were Nvidia. I want to point out RAGE is a complete failure for ATI cards owners. I paid 45€ for it and it's a shame it doesn't work properly on all systems that meet the necessary requirements. With my previous system composed of 2 260 NVIDIA cards and an ASUS MB my BSODS for many, many games were a daily nightmare. I sold the whole stuff for peanuts. You don't tell me the system you have but I'm sure you have a NVIDIA card. If I hadn't had so many problems with my previous system I'd certainly have bought a NVIDIA card too. Maybe the responsible for so many crashes in the past wasn't my graphic card, who knows? Anyway some companies should be proud because people like you are their best defenders. Congratulations!!!! Moreover I agree with you that ATI and AMD are, in a way, responsible for what's happening with RAGE. Their latest driver is a real shame.

I don't disagree with what you've said. Yeah, I do have NVIDIA (have you got signatures turned off in your forum profile settings?) so I started out with good expectations that it would run fine. Way I see things is that there are a number of factors at work here.

• Once upon a time it was normal that PC gamers expected to have to tweak their systems and config files to get games to run. Some time over the past 5-10 years that changed; whether it's a general dumbing down or whatever I don't know, but it seems that nowadays PC gamers view a PC as nothing more than a more powerful console that's able to do some extra stuff, and with that view comes an expectation that everything "just works" in the same way as with consoles.
  
  
• Rage is the first time in a long time that the software is actually ahead of the hardware. We haven't really been in that position since around the time of Doom 3, and I suspect that people don't really know how to deal with it anymore. DirectX 9 class hardware has been utterly standard for so long, and no game has existed that did things in any new or different ways, it's just been variations on a theme. The hardware was ahead of the software, in other words, and the only real variable factor was performance. Microsoft have a lot of blame to shoulder for this; if they had made DirectX 10+ available on XP then most software would have already made the transition and things would have gone a lot smoother.
  
  
• id Software's choice of OpenGL over Direct3D for Rage was, whatever way you look at it, a mistake. This is the root cause of the problems people are having with AMD hardware. You can point the finger at id for choosing OpenGL, or you can point the finger at AMD for not having a good OpenGL driver. I tend to lean towards the latter, and sometimes I tend to do so excessively as a way of balancing out much of the hating that is going on.

My suspicion is that we'll see a Direct3D port of Rage before the year's out (it's probably wishful thinking to say that it might be the reason why the next patch is being so delayed). I switched from OpenGL to Direct3D in my own code because of abyssmally bad driver support and I'm not the only one; the developers of Autodesk Inventor - a professional CAD program - made the very same switch for the very same reason.

id's stance on this is laudable for sure; they have always stuck by OpenGL throughout their releases, and they have perhaps single-handedly kept OpenGL alive as a going concern for games. But ultimately one does have to accept a large dose of reality, and the reality here is that it's now reached a breaking point. OpenGL can be very nice to program to, id have more experience with it than any other game developer (whatever about anything else, they know what they are doing here) and it's undoubtedly a good thing that it exists as a portable graphics API that can be used on Linux and Macs, but it's damaging to the bottom-line, and that is producing a game that actually works. Part of this is deeply rooted in OpenGL's heritage (the UNIX world loves to fork code, it loves to have variation, it loves to have 25,000 different ways of doing the same thing and change them every few years, and all of this is good in terms of moving towards a technically superior answer, but bad because it puts end-users through pain and suffering while doing so) and part of it is deeply rooted in the evolution of OpenGL, the lack of any real driver certification and the mess of extensions that have grown up with it.

Under the Direct3D driver model you're forced to do things one way only, and that is the way Microsoft dictate, but it is also a way that works consistently on all hardware. Under the OpenGL driver model it's a free-for-all jungle where every hardware vendor can do things their own way and can selectively choose what they do or do not support. In theory the OpenGL model is preferable because it can encourage innovation by allowing hardware vendors to get new features to end-users faster, and it can allow hardware vendors to tune the driver better for how their hardware works; in practice it creates an inconsistent mess.

So, getting back to Rage, that pretty much outlines what's really going on behind the scenes. id chose to use OpenGL for it, AMD have a bad OpenGL driver, toss in a game engine that does new and different things in an unexpected way, and the end result is sadly predictable. Who's fault is it? id shouldn't have used OpenGL. AMD should have a better driver. It falls on both really, but despite that the one thing that is certain is that the driver is the real culprit here.

Well said my friend, well said.