The developers of this game said numerous times, you can play through the whole game without killing anyone, cool, and you can, the problem is, make it more fun. When dropping down on an enemy from a height, there is only one option, kill, no knock out. Give us the players the option to knock out enemies when falling down onto them, as it should be our choice to kill or not in every aspect of gameplay that is present in the game.

Its just that little bit more freedom and expression that is required from a game that goes so far, but doesn't go far enough.

At the end of every mission, there is a ticker box at the bottom called "did you kill anyone?" (not actual quotation) I mean if that is the case then you (the devs) are pushing the non killing/lethal aspect, but you restrict it to sleep darts and close quarters choke hold..

This is just boring compared to the kill gameplay, but yet you clearly reward the player for sheathing their blade and using only two methods of gameplay. I agree that not killing should be difficult, but not to extent that it is boring, I might be ignorant here, can someone tell me is there other methods to non lethal take downs in an efficient way?

I really like the game, but don't restrict players to non killing when it is boring in comparison to killing, its shabby gameplay. As I said I'd love if someone can prove me wrong.

Well, it seems that they were wanting to make that style of gameplay distinctly more difficult which is why stabbing takes less time than choking someone out and also why you are so limited with the number of non-lethal darts you can carry. Still, I do think that they could've done a little more to add flavor such as enhanced AI that you could mess with.

Time stopping is a fun way of non-lethally eliminating groups, provided you have enough sleep darts. Stop time, launch darts, release time, everyone insta-sleeps.

That said, I do think you give up a lot of gadgets and powers to do things the non-lethal way. They could have borrowed some things from Thief when it comes to non-lethality like:

- Spring mines that emit a sleeping gas
- Bolts that in a similar manner release a sleeping gas in an area when they explode.
- A disorienting flash bomb, allowing you to instantly knock out people (from any direction, not just from behind) that have been affected by it.

If it's boring, then pacifism is not for you. Congratulations!

If it's more fun to kill, then do it. If you're doing pacifist for a trophy/achievement, then you are like the rest of us who do the same (that being "achievement hunting") and you just have to power through it. In that case, just like the rest of us (me included) you really don't have a leg to stand on if you're going to complain about what it takes to get whatever achievement you want.

I find non lethal very fun. It's just a different kind of fun. The fun for me comes from the feeling of accomplishment when I managed to successfully stealth through the area, from the very fact that the guards did not see me at all.

It is fun it's just an acquired taste.

And it wouldn't make sense to throw in things like dropping down on an enemy to take them out or having non lethal combat options for large fights (aside from the sleep bolts you already have). The idea for non lethal is to avoid combat and when you get caught to use your powers and other capabilities to get away and hide. Your not supposed to be fighting them face to face.

I find it tedious because of bugs or stupid programming. Not because of the gameplay itself. Though I do agree it could need more creative ways to KO people.

Ive done the first mission twice. Being paranoid about not killing anyone so either avoided or choked guards instead. I checked every body to make sure but both times I get 2 kills.

Only thing I can think of is the 2 guards that get eaten by rats. But 1) YOU dont kill them. 2) Its no way to save them.

Although I have yet to play it, the satisfaction I get from playing the Thief games without killing anyone isn't really down to what device I use or how many there are. For me, playing those games non-lethally feels like a test of skill & patience and ultimately feels more rewarding: so I find it fun in a very specific way.

I would however, welcome some more options in taking down enemies non-lethally.

both are gratifing imho, but using nonleathal stealth takedowns as a bit more challenging and there in rewarding

This is arguably the point of the game: it's about the temptation to abuse power. Deus Ex: Human Revolution tried to incorporate the same theme in its fiction, but failed by actually making non-ltehal the more tempting option in gameplay since non-lethal takedowns yielded more XP bonuses.

Actually, I don't care about achievements, its more about the fact that killing gets you a darker story, and what If I want the lighter good side of the story, yet the only way to get there via enjoying myself is slaughtering. Non lethal take downs could have a similar amount of variety as the lethal, the game is praised for mixing it up, and also the devs themselves state you can go through the whole game without killing anyone, and even reward the player for non lethal takedowns, but its boring in comparison to the colourful majestic ways of killing in the game. Which means, someone made a silly decision or forgot to make the non lethal side a bit more engrossing to the player. Adding rewards for doing non lethal takedowns is great, but is not enough when the actual gameplay does not have more than 2 ways of knocking someone out. As I said, if someone can tell me / show me another way to knock someone out, I'll be so happy, someone already did, but that is something I'll discover later on and already knew about (I'm talking about stopping time and shooting sleeping arrows).

the non lethal side is engrossing to the player. Just not to you. It isn't a matter that the devs messed up. Its a matter that its an acquired taste that you don't happen to have. Stealth and non lethality is not supposed to be visceral and fancy. They are basic and silent so as to not draw heavy attention.

Having only 2 methods of knocking someone out compared to the massive amount of ways of killing someone, is not engrossing, no matter what way you pull it. You're right, they are not supposed to be visceral or fancy, but at least give the player the ability to knock someone out when falling on them, gas grenades, some freaking oil on the surface so they slip and fall over into a wall, bash the door so they get knocked unconscious, many games have already done these, yet this game which is offering the most freedom ever for stealth, contradicts itself by rewarding you at the end of every mission by being non lethal, yet its gameplay is heavily based on killing. With a good story ending by not killing anyone is available, sadly it is boring to get there, and pretty much nearly ignoring the colourful aspects of main upgrades you acquire.

Bear with me (grr) because I have yet to play the game...


I find that getting through games (when they allow) non-lethally and without knocking ANY mooks out is thoroughly engrossing, its the main reason I enjoy the stealth genre; the UNBRIDLED PO-WAH of not killing people when you could. I guess you aren't that way inclined, which obviously is fine.


That's interesting. It must be really, REALLY tempting to use your powers to kill people, right? The game rewards you for your restraint, I take it? So, is that not the whole point? That you don't use the powers that The Outsider gave you and therefore not be subsumed by revenge or him (or whatever)?

No offense to anyone who is actually defending this game, but there is only two ways of knocking people out, there are plenty of stealth games were you can knock people out in multiple ways, variation is important because it gets rid of repetition.

If killing makes you smile, then why would you want non-lethal moves? More options to subdue aren't going to please you if you get your thrills from slaughter.

Seriously you just do not seem to get it.

ITS A STEALTH STYLE, YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE RUNNING AROUND KNOCKING PEOPLE OUT, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK YOUR WAY AROUND THEM AND KNOCK THEM OUT ONLY WHEN NECESSARY

Clearly that style is not for you but it is engrossing for many players to go through the game without being seen. Takedowns are not a factor of it. There doesn't need to be more takedowns because stealth take downs are not supposed to be used all the time. They are situational use tools. If you want a variety of takedowns and to take everyone out you play action/lethally if you are going non lethally you are supposed to sneak around un-detected AVOIDING THE GUARDS. The joy of stealth is not in silently taking all the enemies out and then prancing your merry way through the level without anyone to stop you. It is in working your way around all the enemies and doing what you want without taking them down.

^This, for me the satisfaction of getting in & out without alerting anyone, preferably without any evidence is for me the true show of skill in the non-lethal playstyle.

Exactly! It's immensly more tense, when you try to avoid taking out every guard and rather work your way around them.

Fun is a subjective term. I find ghosting through a map very fun. If you don't like it then don't do it.

I think what the OP wants is a whole second set of takeout moves/tools, but which result in non-lethal takeouts instead of murder.

This kind of misses the whole enjoyment factor of stealth games that results in the most tension and engagement - manoeuvring through the level while avoiding the guards without taking them out.

I don't find using the two LTL takedown methods repetitive because I barely use them, and only in emergencies when tension is super high and I'm not thinking "How can I take this guy out differently to the last time?"

If you added a whole bunch of new toys for LTL takedowns then it would be just the same as playing lethally, except the guards snore when they hit the ground.

That said, I do agree with the OP that you should be able to knock a guy out when jumping down from above.

I understand partially where TC is coming from and from the opposite end of the spectrum. The thing is non-lethal doesn't have to go tandem with stealth. If you borked an encounter and you don't have sleep darts, you have to run. The melee combat is a lot of fun and they could have created a Zorro type atmosphere with Corvo potentially in enabling more non-lethal combat options. After besting a guard one-on-one, you punch him in the face. Boom, non-lethal melee take-down. There's nothing wrong with the idea of drop-down being non-lethal either. You put away your sword and drop with bare hands. The weight of your body, an elbow to the back of the head---knockout. The idea of a flashbang doesn't sound too bad, but a mass sleep grenade would be horrible. I'm honestly not as sure how they could have done more non-lethal gadgets. With the two melee take-downs, especially the drop-down, it wouldn't have taken much more time to implement it if it had occured to them. Gadgets are a different story. They could completely cause holy hell to the balance. There is one other thing regarding non-lethal melee. You can sort of negotiate a lethal fight with more than one person. Doing that non-lethal would be too much of a stretch. I don't want Corvo to be a surrogate Batman and I suspect the Devs felt that way too.

Calling it boring is too far though. I'm playing non-lethal right now and I'm still having a lot of fun. I don't even kill rats, which led to a tense moment for me when I was hunting for a charm in a room filled with the svckers. No power upgrades either. It worked out *teeth gleam proudly*

Properly implemented, more non-lethal options could be a great idea. Too many though and you diminish the action side, which funnily enough there are people saying isn't fun because the game pushes you toward stealth allegedly. I would think a hybrid style to be the natural course of action for them, but the choice & consequence inherent in Dishonored might make it seem a bad idea even though there's various degrees of Chaos you can have to get a certain result.

Anyway, that's my two cents for now. Maybe it'll change when I advance in the game, but I doubt it.

Are you moving the bodies to a safe place? I've played mission 1 2x, with 0 kills, and Ghost achievement acquired. You can't just choke and let them drop. Move the bodies to dark corners,/areas.

Make sure they don't fall into water, either. Oops...retry.

Dishonored's counter takes the Mal Reynold's view on murder: "I don't reckon you've killed many. Just put 'em in a position to die easy."

If you knock a dude out and then leave him for the rats or drop him too hard and he dies, it's still essentially murder.

No offense taken, we're just shooting the breeze here (I'm sorry if I came across aggressive and/or badly). More options in games are always good, I can't debate that. All I disagreed with was:

1) You saying that because there are only two ways to knock folk out, non-lethal gameplay isn't engrossing. Having now played the opening chapter of the game for the first time, whilst only knocking out one person and remaining undetected, I still stand by my earlier statement. Look at DE:HR, which has like 4 or 5 ways to knock someone out, or MGS2 which has something like 2 or 3. Neither of those games, in my opinion, is boring.

2) That the game contradicts itself by giving the you the "good" ending only if you remain restrained. I think that it fits perfectly. From what I've gathered from my (admittedly limited) playthrough and the ocassional trailer, the game is very much about power and it's corrupting influence (shoot me down if I'm wrong there).

Except by adding that it wrecks the stealth non lethal play style. As it is there is tension to being stealthy because the thought "what if I get caught" or "what if they see me" goes through your mind. And when you are trying to play non lethally that is a big deal because getting caught then requires you to have to run and hide to maintain that non-lethallity. The second they give you the ability to fight face to face non-lethally that tension is gone. "What if you get caught" well I just take all of them out non lethally. "What if they see me" I can just punch them in the face and knock them out. There is no longer any sense of fear at being caught because it no longer poses a threat to your maintaining your no kill run. And then it raises the question. Well why play stealthy at all if I can just non lethally take everyone out without killing them.

Overall to add in non lethal combat methods breaks the entire design, feel, and challenge of the stealth aspect. It removes any aspect of tension and fear you could possibly have because it removes the risk and consequence of getting caught.